Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)

[GRA]

="MTNRanger"...There have been pretty much zero Volts exhibiting battery degradation; even ones with 150k miles or more...

Actual battery degradation experienced by 2011 and 2013 Volts can be seen from test reports linked on this page, as discussed previously on this thread:

http://avt.inel.gov/phev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the link. One test showed 94.6% of original capacity after 70,766 miles. Another showed 96.4% after 60,131 miles. That's close enough for me.

Even better is that's from total capacity, not usable capacity. Although I've never seen any proof, many us believe that GM opens up the usable SoC % as the battery ages to maintain the same range. The ievs.com article is interesting, as it confirms (as some of us had calculated they must be doing to reach 50 miles AER) GM is using a larger % of the total capacity than was the case with Volt 1.x, apparently around 74-75%. But I've got to wonder at the head of battery systems engineering saying that "engineers increased the amount of power [sic] the 2016 Volt’s electric motor drains from the battery pack by 9 percent before the gasoline engine kicks in." Hopefully just a slip of the tongue, and not indicative of the technical knowledge of the engineers!

 

[edatoakrun]

="MTNRanger"...There have been pretty much zero Volts exhibiting battery degradation; even ones with 150k miles or more...

Actual battery degradation experienced by 2011 and 2013 Volts can be seen from test reports linked on this page, as discussed previously on this thread:

http://avt.inel.gov/phev.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the link. One test showed 94.6% of original capacity after 70,766 miles. Another showed 96.4% after 60,131 miles. That's close enough for me.

Again, this has been discussed before on this thread, but to summarize:

The two Volts you refer to were driven very few of those miles on battery power, as indicated by total MPG of 39.5 and 41.5 respectively.

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/EREV/fs2013volt3929EREV.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/EREV/fs2013volt3491EREV.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which proves that if use grid electricity to refrigerate the battery pack, and drive a Volt mostly in hybrid "range-extending" mode, the depleted pack acting primarily as ballast will not degrade very quickly.

It also proves that if you drive a Volt that much in "range-extending" mode, you will burn about the same amount of gas as you would in a hybrid that never charged from the grid at all, while paying much higher operating costs for the Volt.

Notice the nearly $30 k of depreciation calculated (less incentives) for each of those Volts.

 

[lorenfb]

Although I've never seen and proof, many us believe that GM opens up the usable capacity as the battery ages to maintain the same range.

If this is actually what occurs, is appropriate to conclude that the Volt's battery has no degradation
over time or mileage? Where are the necessary analytic tools as exist for the Leaf, i.e. LeafDD & LeafSpy,
to properly evaluate the Volt's battery? Have extensive evaluations been undertaken besides utilizing
just data provided by the Volt's instrument cluster? One really needs access to a factory GM Volt diagnostic
tool to properly analyze the Volt's battery and not rely on data available to the public.

Bottom line: If the quoted statement has any merit of truth, some rather unscientific conclusions have
been expressed with regard to the Volt's battery degradation.

 

[AndyH]

Although I've never seen and proof, many us believe that GM opens up the usable capacity as the battery ages to maintain the same range.

If this is actually what occurs, is appropriate to conclude that the Volt's battery has no degradation
over time or mileage?

No, it is not 'appropriate' to conclude this as there is not a chemical battery on the planet that has 'no degreadation'.

Bottom line: If the quoted statement has any merit of truth, some rather unscientific conclusions have
been expressed with regard to the Volt's battery degradation.

Sorry lorenfb - nobody will use your 'unscientific' assertions in order to reverse the tons of proof in this and other forums, as well as from standardized testing from labs that have analyzed the subject cells singly and in packs. The folks here are working from well established 'knowns' and trying to build from those. Please don't try to pull them backward.

 

[scottf200]

Does GM recommend not parking the Volt in direct sunlight in the hot summer months? Would that cause battery degradation if the battery is mostly charged?

Great article on this topic showing how it manages the battery temperature:
Volt Battery Thermal Management System in the Hot Arizona Sun
http://gm-volt.com/2013/05/03/volt-battery-thermal-management-system-in-the-hot-arizona-sun/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have 54K on my 2011 Volt and still get over 40 electric miles in decent weather. Looking forward to getting a 2016 GEN II this Fall and passing our current one to another family member.

Battery management has been excellent!!!

 

[lorenfb]

Although I've never seen and proof, many us believe that GM opens up the usable capacity as the battery ages to maintain the same range.

The issue was raised by Guy, so please address it and not obfuscate the issue!

Then we have this post:

The two Volts you refer to were driven very few of those miles on battery power, as indicated by total MPG of 39.5 and 41.5 respectively.

Which proves that if use grid electricity to refrigerate the battery pack, and drive a Volt mostly in hybrid "range-extending" mode, the depleted pack acting primarily as ballast will not degrade very quickly.

Did you not read it or have you ignored it?

 

[lorenfb]

Does GM recommend not parking the Volt in direct sunlight in the hot summer months? Would that cause battery degradation if the battery is mostly charged?

Great article on this topic showing how it manages the battery temperature:
Volt Battery Thermal Management System in the Hot Arizona Sun
http://gm-volt.com/2013/05/03/volt-battery-thermal-management-system-in-the-hot-arizona-sun/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have 54K on my 2011 Volt and still get over 40 electric miles in decent weather. Looking forward to getting a 2016 GEN II this Fall and passing our current one to another family member.

Battery management has been excellent!!!

Yes, we all are aware of the TMS in the Volt, but many seem to ignore the fact that many BEV owners
live in a more temperate climate than in AZ and as such the temperature parameter becomes less of
factor than aging and cycling in battery degradation. Since the Volt has that ICE to support TMS and
the resulting additional energy usage, it hardly can be considered as a comparative BEV product.
The Volt is basically a hybrid and a costly copy of the Prius. The Prius batteries have 'lives' that easily
exceed 200K miles. And what relevance does that have to a true BEV?

 

[AndyH]

Although I've never seen and proof, many us believe that GM opens up the usable capacity as the battery ages to maintain the same range.

The issue was raised by Guy, so please address it and not obfuscate the issue!

The issue to which I replied was yours, not GRAs. Remember this?

If this is actually what occurs, is appropriate to conclude that the Volt's battery has no degradation
over time or mileage?

Turn that finger around...

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Holier than thou Leaf owners just take the other car when they have to go more than 50 miles. Not to mention the environmental impact of disposing and replacing a larger battery every 4 years.
In this case it's the imperfect that's the enemy of the good.

 

[BernieTx]

Does GM recommend not parking the Volt in direct sunlight in the hot summer months? Would that cause battery degradation if the battery is mostly charged?

Great article on this topic showing how it manages the battery temperature: Volt Battery Thermal Management System in the Hot Arizona Sun http://gm-volt.com/2013/05/03/volt-battery-thermal-management-system-in-the-hot-arizona-sun/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have 54K on my 2011 Volt and still get over 40 electric miles in decent weather... Battery management has been excellent!!!

Ok, not an issue with the Volt. How about the 2015 Leaf, with the new upgraded "Lizard" battery? Is it ok to park in the sun, in the hot summer months? Or would that cause battery degradation if the battery is mostly charged? What about 80% charged? I'm considering a Leaf, or a Volt, (or Volt2 later this year) ... but unfortunately, I live in Texas, and I'm worried about battery reliability since I park my car at work in the hot Texas sun....

 

[scottf200]

Does GM recommend not parking the Volt in direct sunlight in the hot summer months? Would that cause battery degradation if the battery is mostly charged?

Great article on this topic showing how it manages the battery temperature: Volt Battery Thermal Management System in the Hot Arizona Sun http://gm-volt.com/2013/05/03/volt-battery-thermal-management-system-in-the-hot-arizona-sun/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have 54K on my 2011 Volt and still get over 40 electric miles in decent weather... Battery management has been excellent!!!

Ok, not an issue with the Volt. How about the 2015 Leaf, with the new upgraded "Lizard" battery? Is it ok to park in the sun, in the hot summer months? Or would that cause battery degradation if the battery is mostly charged? What about 80% charged? I'm considering a Leaf, or a Volt, (or Volt2 later this year) ... but unfortunately, I live in Texas, and I'm worried about battery reliability since I park my car at work in the hot Texas sun....

Good question for other dedicated threads related to the leaf battery. Suggest you post it in this or related threads: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19387&hilit=lizard+battery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This fellow Texan got an i3 because of the battery management system. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19465" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

<snip> Why not another Leaf? Even though I would lease, the range loss bothers me. You just have to have thermal management on batteries in this climate.<snip>

 

[GRA]

IMO, until the 'Lizard' battery proves itself in hot climates with at least three years of customer use including at least two full summers, taking a chance on a non-TMS pack in any hot climate like Texas is not a good idea. I know I wouldn't do it based solely on claims that Nissan's made. A battery without TMS that can handle any temps is the Holy Grail, but until some company can point to large numbers of satisfied customers who've been using their car in all the climates on the planet for years, I'd insist on a TMS, preferably liquid (but cabin air may be okay), in any hot climate, and a battery that's heated up to normal operating temp in a cold one. The Focus and Spark show that it can be done at an affordable price.

 

[scottf200]

Long video and you can skip the first few minutes some explanations from the person that knows vs theories or interpretation.

http://insideevs.com/autoline-hours-2016-chevrolet-volt-discussion-chief-volt-engineer-video/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On this week’s episode of Autoline After Hours, the 2016 Chevrolet Volt, along with its chief engineer, Andrew Farah, are the stars of the show.

It’s a definite must-watch for Volt fans and for those interested in learning more in regards to the tech, design and production of the 2016 Volt.

Farah doesn’t disappoint. He’s a talker and with his position as lead engineer on the next-gen Volt, he’s the man that knows it all when it comes to what makes the 2016 Volt tick.

 

[walterbays]

IMO, until the 'Lizard' battery proves itself in hot climates with at least three years of customer use including at least two full summers, taking a chance on a non-TMS pack in any hot climate like Texas is not a good idea. I know I wouldn't do it based solely on claims that Nissan's made.

If Nissan offered a real battery warranty I'd feel comfortable buying one without lots of real world data. Say, if the battery degrades by 20% (Ah or kWh *not* bars) in 5 years or 50,000 miles you get a new one paying the difference between the warranted lifetime and the actual lifetime. That they don't offer a pro rata warranty, given all the test data they have which we don't have, makes me suspicious.

 

[TomT]

+1!

If Nissan offered a real battery warranty I'd feel comfortable buying one without lots of real world data. Say, if the battery degrades by 20% (Ah or kWh *not* bars) in 5 years or 50,000 miles you get a new one paying the difference between the warranted lifetime and the actual lifetime. That they don't offer a pro rata warranty, given all the test data they have which we don't have, makes me suspicious.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

http://www.hybridcars.com/cadillac-will-discontinue-the-elr/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Could be a collectors item.

 

[BernieTx]

I know own a 2014 Volt The Volt battery TMS sold me; seems much more appropriate for the Texas summer. And the idea that I can drive as far as I want in gasoline mode, anywhere I want. Starting in Austin, Texas, I don't think I could make it to the next city (Dallas or Houston or San Antonio) in a Leaf. And there are a lot of small towns all over Texas that wouldn't even be remotely accessible in a Leaf. But I expect the Volt will handle 80-90% of my driving in EV mode.

 

[scottf200]

I [now] own a 2014 Volt The Volt battery TMS sold me; seems much more appropriate for the Texas summer.
<snip>
But I expect the Volt will handle 80-90% of my driving in EV mode.

Congrats! You are going to love driving *most* of the time on electric.

 

[lorenfb]

I know own a 2014 Volt The Volt battery TMS sold me; seems much more appropriate for the Texas summer. And the idea that I can drive as far as I want in gasoline mode, anywhere I want. Starting in Austin, Texas, I don't think I could make it to the next city (Dallas or Houston or San Antonio) in a Leaf. And there are a lot of small towns all over Texas that wouldn't even be remotely accessible in a Leaf. But I expect the Volt will handle 80-90% of my driving in EV mode.

A Prius would have provided the same result at a lower initial cost and probably would have a better
resale value.

 

[Weatherman]

A Prius would have provided the same result at a lower initial cost and probably would have a better
resale value.

True. But as a former Prius owner, I can say that the Volt is a much nicer car to drive and is far more attractive in appearance.