New Owner...not brimming with confidence.

[MJuric]

So I bought a new Leaf. A dealer ~60 miles away had a deal and since no local dealers had any even in stock we went and looked and ended up buying. It was cold...didn't even come close to making it home. Had to have the vehicle towed the last 20 miles or so.

Today it was ~30F degree. Full charge and battery went from 100% to 80% in 8.6 miles. That gives me ~43 total miles on a complete charge...and it gets a whole lot colder then 30F around here.

I'm just wondering if this is normal for the Leaf, can I expect better, should I expect better?

I'm suffering a real blow of confidence here and wondering if I should plunge forward or return the car.

For the most part this is our second car. It will be used as a daily driver for what is typically 25-30 miles driving a day. I thought this car would be a great fit for us but if I'm pushing the limits of the battery at 30F I'll be lower then that at -10F. Add this to the fact that I will have to be charging to 100% every day, which supposedly effects battery life and again I'm not feeling really warm and fuzzy here.

Any words of advice, wisdom?

 

[Nubo]

When starting out on a trip in cold weather, the energy consumed by the heating system will be much higher during the first 10 minutes or so of driving since you have to heat not just the cabin air, but all of the materials in the cabin that were cold-soaked. Energy consumed by the heater will drop significantly once the interior is up to temperature. So the consumption during the first few miles is not indicative of the full run.

100% is now the standard charge mode and it doesn't seem like the 80% charging was particularly important for battery life. I wouldn't worry too much about that. If you want to be nice to the battery, charge in such a way that the battery reaches full charge shortly before you need the car. Use of the "end-time only" program settings can make this easy if you have a consistent schedule. The idea is to not have the car sit for long periods at 100% charge.

Speed is the single biggest determinant of energy consumption. To go further, slow down.

We'd need more details to understand why you only managed 40 miles range on the way home. What was your speed, weather conditions, terrain and also do you have the S, SV, or SL?

There are tons of advice here on how to manage range and drive economically in the LEAF.

one thread, for example:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5508&p=127651" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[MJuric]

00% is now the standard charge mode and it doesn't seem like the 80% charging was particularly important for battery life.

So if I set a timer that has it charged to 100% every day by the time I normally leave the house or shorter before I should not effect normal battery life? Right now I'm doing 120 trickle but plan on getting the EVSE upgrade for so I can charge 110/120 and 220/240. I should be able to get a 240 installed pretty easily at work since it's a heavy power building which will allow me to charge there or at home. My concern was that constantly charging back up to 100% would be an issue.

So the consumption during the first few miles is not indicative of the full run.

Was just reading here that it helps to warm up the cabin while plugged in. Same thing as going out and warming up the car as I used to I suppose. I could then run with eco off, get everything warm and not have that drain right off the bat.

Speed is the single biggest determinant of energy consumption. To go further, slow down.

My main use for the vehicle will be home>drop kids at the school>work>home with the occasional errand after work. All in town with max speeds of 50-55 mostly 40-45. My total round trip is ~27 miles or so. As stated above however I can charge at work as well.

We'd need more details to understand why you only managed 40 miles range on the way home. What was your speed, weather conditions, terrain and also do you have the S, SV, or SL?

Weather was cold and windy at highway speeds. We have the S.

I really like the car, love the feel and drive. Both my wife and I feel it is a nicer ride then our Corolla. Just very nervous about the range issue. I was expecting to get at least 50 mile range in worst case scenario in town, bad weather and cold. Nearly 20% less then that in relatively warm temps, 30F in Jan around here is warm, is disconcerting.

 

[cwerdna]

We'd need more details to understand why you only managed 40 miles range on the way home. What was your speed, weather conditions, terrain and also do you have the S, SV, or SL?

Weather was cold and windy at highway speeds. We have the S.

I really like the car, love the feel and drive. Both my wife and I feel it is a nicer ride then our Corolla. Just very nervous about the range issue. I was expecting to get at least 50 mile range in worst case scenario in town, bad weather and cold. Nearly 20% less then that in relatively warm temps, 30F in Jan around here is warm, is disconcerting.

Can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

You should've gotten an SV or SL w/the more efficient hybrid heater.

High speeds are range killers (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false as well as heater use. How fast were you going? Do you know if there was a net elevation gain between the dealer and home? (http://priuschat.com/threads/google-earth-can-give-you-an-elevation-profile-of-a-route-between-2-points.100653/#axzz3NdJbi47U" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false If so, that and the high speed (still don't know how fast you went) + heater use + any increase in rolling friction (e.g. due to snow or rain) will cut range.

You need to reduce heater usage and use the heated seats and steering wheel to improve your cold weather range. Pre-conditioning while plugged into a 208/240 volt EVSE will also help, so you don't use up charge from the battery for that too. Alas, I believe it's a pain in the butt to set that timer on the S and there's no way to trigger it remotely (e.g. via Carwings app). From looking at the '14 Leaf manual, there's also no way to set the pre-condition temperature on the S (from manual "As the temperature is set to the factory default setting, the user cannot adjust the temperature"). On the '13+ SV/SL, you can change that temp via the touchscreen.

You mention "return the car".... unless the dealer has some sort of return policy or your state mandates one, you will take a big bath on it as the car's now used.

Do also confirm the cold tire pressure of your tires is sufficient. Underinflated tires increase rolling friction and reduces efficiency.

 

[DeckerEgo]

Driving style makes a gigantic difference. On my first day a 26 mi drive ate 40% battery - now it eats 25%. Learning about efficient climate control, coasting, B mode and speed can really affect range.

 

[MJuric]

How fast were you going? Do you know if there was a net elevation gain between the dealer and home?

I was on the interstate doing ~65. Elevation gain from mile zero to 22.5 was ~200 ft and then downhill from there.

I will try some of the driving techniques in the other threads as well as "Preheating" while plugged in and see what I end up with around town.

 

[kolmstead]

MJuric, you need to install a 240 Volt EVSE. If you have the 6 kW charger and an SL or SV, you can have a nice, warm car with the battery at full charge when you leave. Starting the car cold and heating it up as you drive is a huge range-killer. If you have the 3 kW charger, preheat doesn't work as well. If you have CarWings, you can turn on climate control 45-60 minutes prior to leaving, and the battery, which gets depleted a bit as the car warms up, will charge back up.

If you preheat, your Leaf should work fine given your short trips. I would expect 60 miles of range at 25 degrees, 40-45 miles at zero F. But you have to work within the car's limits. What won't work would be multiple start-ups each requiring a heat-up from cold, with no EVSE available. Congratulations on your purchase! There is tons of info on this site on how to maximize winter range.

-Karl

 

[cwerdna]

If you have CarWings, you can turn on climate control 45-60 minutes prior to leaving, and the battery, which gets depleted a bit as the car warms up, will charge back up.

OP said he has an S trim. No Carwings on that since it has no nav system nor telematics module.

If you download an owners manual for a recent Leaf S via https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/navigation/manualsGuide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, you'll see that it's a pain in the butt to set the limited timers on the S. You gotta do it thru the cluster of 4 buttons...well, using 2 of them instead of the touchscreen.

 

[Phatcat73]

For your commute the car will be fine. Temps in the single digits will eat about 40% efficiency. And the heater will struggle. You'll experience this next week and if you're ok with some of the extreme cold drawbacks, then it'll only get better.

 

[cwerdna]

In the future, when you plan to somewhat push it on range, besides all the tips/hints given, you'll really want to reset the miles/kWh display and trip odometer. Monitor the former closely along w/% SoC.

Consult the range chart at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and find the closest miles/kWh value, keeping in mind that you have ~21 kWh usable on fully charged new battery at normal temps (will be less when cold). You can get some idea if you need to slow down, slow down more, take other steps to conserve power or stop somewhere to charge (consult http://www.plugshare.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

You also want to make sure you let the car fully charge and terminate the charge itself, instead of unplugging early, so that you hopefully have a balanced pack. We believe the bounces in charging at the end (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=338038#p338038" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false are part of a balancing routine.

(I have no LeafSpy to confirm this) I'd guess that you if you terminate early when the car is in 98% SoC in ramp down phase w/a blue light blinking and unplugging causes a jump to 100%, the pack's not fully balanced.

If you plan to use any public non-free EVSEs that require you be on a charging network (e.g. Chargepoint, Blink, etc.), make sure you sign up first and have active cards. It's no fun and a waste of time to make phone calls to attempt to charge.

 

[garsh]

Pre-conditioning while plugged into a 208/240 volt EVSE will also help, so you don't use up charge from the battery for that too.

I believe the S only has the 3.3kW charger. With that charger, the heater will still end up drawing from the battery even when plugged in. It's not much, but it does happen.

The best thing to do here is to not use the heater. At all. I went as far as to install a switch in my Leaf so that I can be sure that the heater doesn't come on at all. When driving in cold weather, I use only the steering wheel and seat heaters, and I dress warmly - heavy coat, hat, gloves.

Do you have a garage at home? If so, having it be that much warmer to start the commute will help a lot.

 

[cwerdna]

Pre-conditioning while plugged into a 208/240 volt EVSE will also help, so you don't use up charge from the battery for that too.

I believe the S only has the 3.3kW charger.

The S has the 6 kW OBC if you choose the "charge package" which also comes w/the CHAdeMO port.

No CHAdeMO inlet on the S == base S == no 6 kW OBC.

 

[bestbuyguy21]

Also, make sure you are driving in ECO mode when you run the air/heat. ECO regulates the HVAC system to use far less power. You will get much more range in ECO when running the air/heat. Also make sure you're using the seat/steering wheel heat. Most of the time I don't even need the HVAC on when i'm using the seat/steering wheel heaters. They use far less power than the HVAC.

 

[Bob]

I think that someone already said this, but the "GOM" miles remaining display is very misleading. It tries to give you a guess of range remaining, but it errs on the side of fear. In other words, it gives you a pessimistic indication of range remaining. It also responds to your recent driving style, so if you drove the last two miles up a steep hill, the GOM will drop really fast, assuming that your whole trip will be up hill.

I drive 10 miles to work and 10 miles home every day. Work is slightly downhill from home. At times, I've actually had the GOM read 40 miles in the garage first thing in the morning, and 40 miles when I arrived at work!?! My last mile to home is up hill so if I hurry home, the GOM gets really pessimistic. Then if I slowly drive to work the next morning, the GOM puts in a very optimistic constant for charge to range.

In summary, if you really want to know your remaining range, set the dash display to % charge remaining, and ignore the GOM.

Bob

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

This thread is another testimony to Nissan messing things up by creating confusion with the different trim levels. Instead of aggravating the LEAF's limitations they should have just kept things simple and made the heat pump, 6kw OBC and probably the fast charge port standard on all models, and left the trim differentiation to cosmetics, audio upgrades, etc.
The don't put a four gallon gas tank on the base model Altima.

 

[Roadburner440]

30F is cold, and -10 is way colder.. I know when it gets to the worst parts of winter here (gets in the teens in the morning) I use the heater only to keep the front window defrosted. I dress extremely warm, and use the heated seat & steering wheel. As others have said you cannot just run the heat continuously. I have actually gone as far as to turn the temp down to 70 in an effort to kind of stem some of the heat usage on my car.

As far as how bad its going to get the battery will continue to hold less charge the colder it gets. How much worse in your case I am not positive. My car with at 79%SOH on a full charge is still going over 50 miles without hitting the low battery warning, and it has been in the low to mid 30's here. Now granted that is running no heat, and I pre-condition the car while plugged in for 20 minutes or so before leaving to clear the windows of fog & ice.

Lastly you somewhat have to do some base lining when you first get your LEAF. Things that you don't normally think about such as wind direction & speed, road friction from snow/rain/debris, speed, and any type of hills on your route will affect your range. In the beginning I used to watch the GOM and my charge bars religiously, but years later I don't worry about it cause now I know the car will make it everywhere I need to go. Until you have driven it awhile and build trust with it you will feel that uncertainty. Sadly your LEAF journey is off to a rough start as it stranded you trying to make it home from the dealer. The thing you have to keep in mind is that in winter it is a 45-55 mile car, and in the summer time I have no issues hitting over 80 miles on a charge. You just have to kind of get used to the wild swings in range with weather changes.

 

[kikngas]

Welcome to LEAF ownership! I've had my S for a few months, so I got a chance to get a feel for it at mild temps before Winter came on. I've noticed the range reduction of the cold weather. The range chart may be a bit optimistic on the footnotes about adjusting your estimate based on temperature. But it is always hard to tell because you most always have to hit the defrost a couple of times, and are often driving on a less than dry roadway.

You had the unfortunate circumstance to be forced to doing a longer trip right out of the chute. I purchased my car with roughly the same daily commute expectations, and similar if not colder climate, and can say it really hasn't been a problem. I've been driving around everywhere with seat and wheel heater on and the heat set to low fan and 80 just to try and better get a feel for how it impacts my usage on my commute. It is really hard to tell. There are so many variables.

One thing to be aware of, and I don't believe I've seen it happen yet, but as the temp drops below zero, if the battery gets that cold as well, it kicks on a battery heater. It can happen in the parking lot while powered off. So it is possible to return to the car with significantly less charge than it had when you left it there. The good news is that driving around and charging both serve to heat the battery. And that it seems to take more than half a day for the battery to drop closer to matching outside temp.

The battery heater, once tripped on, stays on until the battery gets up around 14(F) (or until you reach 30% SOC). To my way of thinking, that's one heck of a lot of electricity, fighting against a cold windy day, to get it back to 14. I have not had to park outdoors overnight or for a period of days to report any actual observations. As I say, the good news is that the battery temp swings very slowly to match outdoor temp and often by that time the outdoor temp has improved. I don't have the smartphone app that can show the actual temp of the battery.

So, I think your "A" plan is good. You are hearing a lot of good advice here, but rest assured you don't have to follow all of it to get 'er done on your commute. These tips come most in handy when you have to do a longer trip (such as your trip home from the dealership). Some people (your spouse perhaps?) see all of this and want to throw up their hands. It's all good advice, but your planned use does not require that level of optimization.

Here are my tips to you:

1) Wal-Mart, throw blankets <$3, buy several, black works well with the interior, in addition to a cozy leg wrap that keeps in the heat from the seat, they are handy to cover from prying eyes what is in your trunk as well.
2) plugshare.com, print closeup maps of how to get to your area charging stations, keep them in the car, and carefully review the comments about them. Get any required membership cards activated, even if you don't plan to use a given location. This way you are covered if you lose cell signal for mapping, or have an unexpected diversion to your commute arise.
3) Visit some of the available charging stations so you are familiar with them. And if you wish for more to be installed, find some ways to use some of the existing ones that are around. I have one near my library. I use it as an excuse to get down to the library, and I pull the 1hr minimum charge while I'm there. It is my $1.50 investment in ensuring others see usage in my area.
4) You don't have to always "fill 'er up". Keep in mind that you can always just "top off" or pick up an extra 20%. Watch carefully how a given location charges for use so you generally get at least what is included in any minimum charges.

I kept my old ICE thinking I might have to pull it out periodically for my commute. But I have not touched it in over 3 months now. That's over 80 gallons of gas I've not had to buy. Yes, this whole "over supply" thing with oil... that was me! :lol: I've now got a 150mi (each way) trip under my belt (although don't think I can do it in Winter), and am now planning exploratory journeys to the west.

 

[MJuric]

Thanks all for the tips and info.

I will be doing a "Practice run" of my daily commute today without the kids...just in case. Depending on how today goes I may do another tomorrow as a "Worst case", heater running, non eco, driving a bit more aggressively and see what the outcome is.

Again I *think* I should be ok as I will probably be installing a 240 charger at work and at home...once the ground thaws enough to trench for a new box to the garage The distance to school and work is less then 20 miles so should never be an issue as long as I can charge there as well.

Thanks again.

 

[epirali]

Thanks all for the tips and info.

I will be doing a "Practice run" of my daily commute today without the kids...just in case. Depending on how today goes I may do another tomorrow as a "Worst case", heater running, non eco, driving a bit more aggressively and see what the outcome is.

Again I *think* I should be ok as I will probably be installing a 240 charger at work and at home...once the ground thaws enough to trench for a new box to the garage The distance to school and work is less then 20 miles so should never be an issue as long as I can charge there as well.

Thanks again.

One more thing, sorry if it has been noted before and is redundant, I scanned the thread and may have missed it: inflate the tires to 40-42 PSI and you will see a difference. When it gets cold you should check as the tires will lose pressure in cold fast. Only down side is worse snow traction with highly inflated tire, but it does have an impact on range.

 

[MJuric]

Pre-conditioning while plugged into a 208/240 volt EVSE will also help, so you don't use up charge from the battery for that too.

I believe the S only has the 3.3kW charger.

The S has the 6 kW OBC if you choose the "charge package" which also comes w/the CHAdeMO port.

No CHAdeMO inlet on the S == base S == no 6 kW OBC.

We have the base model 3.3 Kw port on the S model no quick charge. Did not really think that would be an issue since it can charge 240 V. Since we have no intention of using this car for anything longer then around town we had no need for quick charge and the added expense. Truth be what it may the only reason I considered the Leaf in the first place is because the rebates and incentives drove the price of that particular model lower then most of the other cars we were looking at. Add on the extra port, move to the SL/SV and we are now moving back up over the other vehicles. We got this version at what I thought was a good price, significantly lower the MSRP, probably because the dealer had it in stock and it was the last day of the YEAR. Take away that discount, move up to the other versions and add on and it's no longer an option for us.