Official Tesla Model 3 thread

[RegGuheert]

But when people (not you) claim it is the death knell of the Model 3 I just have to laugh and point out how ridiculous that is.

:roll: :roll:

Go ahead. Quote the words where someone said ANYTHING REMOTELY CLOSE to what you just said. I dare you.

Your statement is simply a straw man argument with no basis in reality.

 

[edatoakrun]

Prognostications below indicate over 2,000 3's delivered in January, with production still under 1 k per week.

https://model3ownersclub.com/threads/data-from-the-model-3-invites-spreadsheet.5678/

Well see what insideEVs has to say in a few days.

In any case, it is looking increasingly unlikely TSLA will hit the 200 k cumulative USA BEV deliveries limit for full $7.5 k tax credits this quarter, which may be (perversely) good news for TSLA's mid-term viability.

 

[keydiver]

For someone that just "has to have" a switch to open the glovebox, I am sure that one can be added. As soon as someone in Massachusetts gets a Service Manual for the Model 3, its probably as simple as cutting one wire to the glovebox solenoid, inserting a diode inline, and putting a switch on the dash to connect either +5VDC, +12 VDC, or GROUND to activate it manually. Problem solved.

 

[scottf200]

210 miles in 30 minutes

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-speed-116kw.107619/

Source above link: Supercharger speed: 116kW -- Tony Williams is well known around these parts.

1 February 2017 @ Kettleman City, California USA

 

[GRA]

Looks like he went from 19 to 216-217 RM in 30 minutes, or 198 miles/30 minutes, while Tesla claims 170 miles of range in that time. OTOH, he was starting from only 6% SoC, which I imagine is lower than most people would want to take their battery routinely, and was charging near the 120kW max. rate for about 10 minutes. Looks like the major taper began somewhere between 40-45% SoC.

 

[scottf200]

Chevrolet Bolt Comparison
(see orange Charge Rate(kW) line
and yellow State Of Charge (SOC) line below
after a 40 minute charge (5:27-6:07) ):
https://bro05.blogspot.com/2017/03/fast-charging-experiences-with-bolt.html

 

[EVDRIVER]

Looks like he went from 19 to 216-217 RM in 30 minutes, or 198 miles/30 minutes, while Tesla claims 170 miles of range in that time. OTOH, he was starting from only 6% SoC, which I imagine is lower than most people would want to take their battery routinely, and was charging near the 120kW max. rate for about 10 minutes. Looks like the major taper began somewhere between 40-45% SoC.

Which is why the LR pack is good for those that travel distances and want faster charging.

 

[GRA]

Looks like he went from 19 to 216-217 RM in 30 minutes, or 198 miles/30 minutes, while Tesla claims 170 miles of range in that time. OTOH, he was starting from only 6% SoC, which I imagine is lower than most people would want to take their battery routinely, and was charging near the 120kW max. rate for about 10 minutes. Looks like the major taper began somewhere between 40-45% SoC.

Which is why the LR pack is good for those that travel distances and want faster charging.

Pretty much essential.

 

[SageBrush]

Looks like he went from 19 to 216-217 RM in 30 minutes, or 198 miles/30 minutes, while Tesla claims 170 miles of range in that time. OTOH, he was starting from only 6% SoC, which I imagine is lower than most people would want to take their battery routinely, and was charging near the 120kW max. rate for about 10 minutes. Looks like the major taper began somewhere between 40-45% SoC.

6% SoC in the Model 3 LR is 19 miles -- No worries in a LEAF

 

[GRA]

6% SoC in the Model 3 LR is 19 miles -- No worries in a LEAF

6% is 6% regardless of battery size, and isn't the best way to treat a Li-ion battery if you care about longevity. It's well into what most people would consider the emergency reserve. If deep discharges had no effect on degradation it would be another matter, but as we know they do.

 

[SageBrush]

6% SoC in the Model 3 LR is 19 miles -- No worries in a LEAF

6% is 6% regardless of battery size, and isn't the best way to treat a Li-ion battery if you care about longevity. It's well into what most people would consider the emergency reserve. If deep discharges had no effect on degradation it would be another matter, but as we know they do.

That could be a valid concern and argument if it was frequent. For the occasional Supercharger trip all the driver cares about is avoiding range anxiety and timely driving/charging.

 

[GRA]

6% SoC in the Model 3 LR is 19 miles -- No worries in a LEAF

6% is 6% regardless of battery size, and isn't the best way to treat a Li-ion battery if you care about longevity. It's well into what most people would consider the emergency reserve. If deep discharges had no effect on degradation it would be another matter, but as we know they do.

That could be a valid concern and argument if it was frequent. For the occasional Supercharger trip all the driver cares about is avoiding range anxiety and timely driving/charging.

Really depends on how frequent "frequent" is, and how long someone plans to keep the car, as all degradation is cumulative. Personally, I'd probably never plan to go below 15%, and would normally prefer 25% or better unless that's shown to not significantly speed up degradation. But I'm one of the people who keeps cars for their usable lifetime and expect that to be a minimum of 15 years, so I'm probably more concerned about long-term issues than the average new car buyer who only keeps the car for 6 yrs 7 months. OTOH the average used car is kept for 5 years 6 months. The average age of the entire LDV fleet is 11.6 years (all values for 2016), so resale value is going to require significant remaining capability when that average new car owner decides to sell the car, as most cars are bought used. http://news.ihsmarkit.com/press-rel...-age-light-cars-and-trucks-us-rises-again-201

 

[EVDRIVER]

A better target is about 10% as below 7 makes the SC ramp slower. 6% on many road trips under normal conditions won't present degradation worth noting.

 

[scottf200]

Looks like he went from 19 to 216-217 RM in 30 minutes, or 198 miles/30 minutes, while Tesla claims 170 miles of range in that time.

Shocking as normally GRA loves to go on and on and on while he rips Tesla when they fall short but when they exceed claims he is pretty nonchalant and tempered. Not even giving them congrats or credit

 

[SageBrush]

I also plan to keep my Model 3 long term, but drops to 6% SoC during long trip driving would not concern me. In part, as I mentioned, because it is infrequent; and second, because the battery is only briefly at that lowish level. Low battery SoC has the same vibe as > 95% SoC charging: keep it infrequent and don't stay there.

 

[GRA]

Looks like he went from 19 to 216-217 RM in 30 minutes, or 198 miles/30 minutes, while Tesla claims 170 miles of range in that time.

Shocking as normally GRA loves to go on and on and on while he rips Tesla when they fall short but when they exceed claims he is pretty nonchalant and tempered. Not even giving them congrats or credit

Why do you think I went to the trouble of pointing out that they'd exceeded their claim? Of course, RM may be different from actual range, and the 170 mile figure may have assumed a higher SoC start point, but still. I'd love to see them expand this practice to the rest of their claims - if they did you'd see me positively bubbling over with enthusiasm :lol: I love companies that regularly low-ball their claimrs - to quote my old sig, "When nurturing a new technology, under-promise and over-deliver rather than the opposite."

 

[GRA]

A better target is about 10% as below 7 makes the SC ramp slower. 6% on many road trips under normal conditions won't present degradation worth noting.

Until we have data that shows this or a company provides it so we can base our decisions on something more than general knowledge, I wouldn't be willing to take the chance. About all we have are Elon recommending 80% to 30% for daily use, and Jeff Dahn advising that 70% is better, with the occasional excursion to 100% SoC when needed: https://electrek.co/2017/09/01/tesla-battery-expert-recommends-daily-battery-pack-charging/

I'd probably limit myself normally to say 90% to 25% for road trips, and keep 100% only for the first/last leg to an SC when I simply couldn't make it otherwise. For shortest charging times it would be 80% to 25% or maybe 15%, but I'd prefer not to. Naturally, this limits the usable range considerably.

 

[SageBrush]

Looks like he went from 19 to 216-217 RM in 30 minutes, or 198 miles/30 minutes, while Tesla claims 170 miles of range in that time.

Shocking as normally GRA loves to go on and on and on while he rips Tesla when they fall short but when they exceed claims he is pretty nonchalant and tempered. Not even giving them congrats or credit

Perhaps even more impressive is the 125 miles of charge in 15 minutes. That is pretty much a best case, but WOW.
Starting from a full charge, the car can travel 450 miles on a 15-20 minute stop, for a throughput speed of ~ 63.5 mph.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I know of cases with routine
and frequent discharge to 6 and no degradation past normal. I would not let a car sit at 6 or do high current draws at that level but I would not be concerned about going there. Overall people worry way too much about their packs when they should not and not enough under conditions when they should. Heat, and sitting at the wrong SOC. I have seen S packs with 100k mikes with negligible degradation under normal use. My LEAF had almost none after three years with 100% charges all the time. Granted I did not park it in AZ heat for days at 100. The biggest issue going forward will be not having access to the glove box becase of electronic buttons. That and VIN anxiety for not knowing if Tesla is making their numbers. This keeps me up more than anything besides being chased by a rouge push trailer in my sleep. It’s just not safe out there.

 

[GRA]

I know of cases with routineand frequent discharge to 6 and no degradation past normal. I would not let a car sit at 6 or do high current draws at that level but I would not be concerned about going there. Overall people worry way too much about their packs when they should not and not enough under conditions when they should.

Some people may have different criteria for their concerns than you do, even when they possess the same level of knowledge. Anecdotal data is just that, and while better than nothing, it's not something that anyone should be basing their decision on if they've got access to statistical data.

Heat, and sitting at the wrong SOC. I have seen S packs with 100k mikes with negligible degradation under normal use.

Uh huh, now give your definition of "negliglble" a numerical value, and the specific usage conditions that made that possible, which won't apply to everyone.

that My LEAF had almost none after three years with 100% charges all the time. Granted I did not park it in AZ heat for days at 100.

As above.