Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2!

[dgpcolorado]

You've heard this before, I think: I just spoke with a Nissan rep a few minutes ago at the "Drive Electric Tour" and he said the EVSE Upgrade would void the battery warranty. I pointed out that the EVSE used to supply the current had nothing to do with the battery. He said that the cord for the 120V EVSE wasn't designed for the 240V upgrade and gets too "hot". He also said that there are problems with battery capacity in some Texas cars and implied that the EVSE upgrade is being looked at as a cause and that there is a TSB coming out on the use of it.

He also said there are a couple of other EVSEs due to be UL listed in January to give the AV one some competition and that the models currently available from Home Depot and places like that aren't currently UL listed. (Is that true? I never looked into it.)

Has anyone been hassled by a Leaf certified dealer about using EVSE Upgrade for 240V charging?

 

[Stoaty]

You've heard this before, I think: I just spoke with a Nissan rep a few minutes ago at the "Drive Electric Tour" and he said the EVSE Upgrade would void the battery warranty. I pointed out that the EVSE used to supply the current had nothing to do with the battery. He said that the cord for the 120V EVSE wasn't designed for the 240V upgrade and gets too "hot". He also said that there are problems with battery capacity in some Texas cars and implied that the EVSE upgrade is being looked at as a cause and that there is a TSB coming out on the use of it.

This doesn't square with this statement on evseupgrade.com:

"It will not void the warranty on your car. In the US we have the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which is a United States federal law, (15 U.S.C. § 2301 et seq.). Enacted in 1975, it is the federal statute that governs warranties on consumer products. Among other things, It prevents manufacturers from denying warranty coverage from aftermarket upgrades. The only way they can deny a claim is to unequivocally prove that the upgrade did damage to your car. (see previous question) However, the warranty coverage on the EVSE itself will be voided."

Who do you trust more--an unnamed "Nissan rep" or Ingineer?

 

[mitch672]

He also said there are a couple of other EVSEs due to be UL listed in January to give the AV one some competition and that the models currently available from Home Depot and places like that aren't currently UL listed. (Is that true? I never looked into it.)

Has anyone been hassled by a Leaf certified dealer about using EVSE Upgrade for 240V charging?

Total Horse Poo. What does UL listing have to do with how the EVSE functions? UL is a SAFTY listing, nothing more, nothing less. On the Schnieder website, all of their EVSEs are listed as meeting "5 ma UL definition for people protection". I see no reason why those units would not meet UL approval, and I'm sure if they are not yet UL approved, they soon will be. Schnieder is a MAJOR manufacturer, with a ful lline of indoor, and outdoor EVSEs.

This is just more FUD and Horse Poo being slung by no nothings.

Edit: on the Home Depot web site, under "Specifications", UL Listed: 1-UL Listed
so it is UL listed, as I doubt Schnieder would release a consumer product that wasn't listed.

 

[DarkStar]

I just spoke with a Nissan rep a few minutes ago at the "Drive Electric Tour"

You realize these guys are just temp employees hired for the weekend at a particular location, right? You'll see the Nissan Craigslist ads pop up about 2 weeks before they show up...

 

[palmermd]

You've heard this before, I think: I just spoke with a Nissan rep a few minutes ago at the "Drive Electric Tour" and he said the EVSE Upgrade would void the battery warranty.

"It will not void the warranty on your car. In the US we have the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which is a United States federal law, (15 U.S.C. § 2301 et seq.). Enacted in 1975, it is the federal statute that governs warranties on consumer products. Among other things, It prevents manufacturers from denying warranty coverage from aftermarket upgrades. The only way they can deny a claim is to unequivocally prove that the upgrade did damage to your car. (see previous question) However, the warranty coverage on the EVSE itself will be voided."

He said that the cord for the 120V EVSE wasn't designed for the 240V upgrade and gets too "hot".

Heat does not come from voltage. I comes from current. Obvious FUD.

He also said that there are problems with battery capacity in some Texas cars and implied that the EVSE upgrade is being looked at as a cause

More FUD. Battery current and voltage always comes from the charger which is in the car. Source of this power has no bearing on the batteries.

and that there is a TSB coming out on the use of it.

I can't wait to read it.

 

[Volusiano]

I just spoke with a Nissan rep a few minutes ago at the "Drive Electric Tour"

You realize these guys are just temp employees hired for the weekend at a particular location, right? You'll see the Nissan Craigslist ads pop up about 2 weeks before they show up...

When they had the drive tour in AZ, beside the temp employees, there was one older gentleman (forgot his name) who seemed to be a bonafide regular rep from Nissan who was around to answer all questions people may have. The temp employees only ran around doing their duties and yes, they did give the demo tour before you get to test drive, and answered questions on the demo tour. But I gotta believe each tour has bonafide Nissan rep there knowledgeable enough about the car.

However, it still doesn't change the fact that Nissan rep can still give you BS answers as well.

 

[fooljoe]

Has anyone been hassled by a Leaf certified dealer about using EVSE Upgrade for 240V charging?

I actually first heard about EVSEupgrade from the dealer when I picked up my Leaf.

 

[Volusiano]

How would they even know which EVSE you use in the first place in order to blame any kind of battery or charger failure on the EVSE? There are going to be thousands of public EVSEs and private EVSEs, any of which can be your source for charging.

 

[LEAFfan]

You realize these guys are just temp employees hired for the weekend at a particular location, right? You'll see the Nissan Craigslist ads pop up about 2 weeks before they show up...

You must have never done the tour because at ours, there were many actual Nissan reps , not just hired workers.

 

[smkettner]

I think Nissan is just trying to protect their reasoning for their poor decision to make the Panasonic unit 120v only.
I think the real reason is to encourage everyone to buy the overpriced AV wall unit.

Once AV is out of the picture due to competition the Panasonic would be open to redesign for universal voltage.

My laptop can charge on 90 to 250 volts, why not my car....

 

[mitch672]

I think Nissan is just trying to protect their reasoning for their poor decision to make the Panasonic unit 120v only.
I think the real reason is to encourage everyone to buy the overpriced AV wall unit.

Once AV is out of the picture due to competition the Panasonic would be open to redesign for universal voltage.

My laptop can charge on 90 to 250 volts, why not my car....

I agree, things have probably not worked out with AV, the way the 2 companies envisioned, and who knows, Nissan could even be on the hook for some of that contract $$$$ value, hence they keep pushing AV, even though "the jiggs up" on that one, the EVSE-RS keeps showing up on eBay for $599 as well, I wonder who is putting those up.

Edit: Now they are an auction style listing, starting at $449.99, + $30 shipping, price keeps dropping.. which is good for everyone.

 

[EVDRIVER]

You've heard this before, I think: I just spoke with a Nissan rep a few minutes ago at the "Drive Electric Tour" and he said the EVSE Upgrade would void the battery warranty. I pointed out that the EVSE used to supply the current had nothing to do with the battery. He said that the cord for the 120V EVSE wasn't designed for the 240V upgrade and gets too "hot". He also said that there are problems with battery capacity in some Texas cars and implied that the EVSE upgrade is being looked at as a cause and that there is a TSB coming out on the use of it.

He also said there are a couple of other EVSEs due to be UL listed in January to give the AV one some competition and that the models currently available from Home Depot and places like that aren't currently UL listed. (Is that true? I never looked into it.)

Has anyone been hassled by a Leaf certified dealer about using EVSE Upgrade for 240V charging?

I can tell you with 100% certainty that what he said is not only wrong about the EVSE doing anything to the car but it is also so ignorant and misinformed it sounds like another hired hand at a drive expo spouting nonsense. Not only is 95% of what is said at those events wrong but the most senior "tech" people there are not engineers and they are not even Nissan employees in most cases. I had a nice debate with one that insisted the car had no charger in the back and the box behind the inverter was the charger. There is no way one could even build and EVSE to have any impact on on battery capacity if you WANTED to make it do that. Don't believe any of the FUD you hear from these events, even most of the Nissan Reps don't have a clue how an EV works. I really wish people (not you) that are clueless about EVs and electronics would keep their mouths shut rather than make things up or play "telephone" with what they heard. This kind of nonsense on many aspects of the car comes up many times and I'm sure the Nissan engineers that have used the eve upgrade to charge their cars before know this is true. Yes, they have been seen using one at a Nissan owners home. I did hear though that using the eves upgrade will prevent you from getting odd numbered XM radio stations :lol: :lol:

 

[TomT]

Let me put this very succinctly: He's absolutely frigging crazy and categorically wrong! They need to get idiots like this off the tour, now! :evil:

You've heard this before, I think: I just spoke with a Nissan rep a few minutes ago at the "Drive Electric Tour" and he said the EVSE Upgrade would void the battery warranty. I pointed out that the EVSE used to supply the current had nothing to do with the battery. He said that the cord for the 120V EVSE wasn't designed for the 240V upgrade and gets too "hot". He also said that there are problems with battery capacity in some Texas cars and implied that the EVSE upgrade is being looked at as a cause and that there is a TSB coming out on the use of it.

 

[Ingineer]

You've heard this before, I think: I just spoke with a Nissan rep a few minutes ago at the "Drive Electric Tour" and he said the EVSE Upgrade would void the battery warranty. I pointed out that the EVSE used to supply the current had nothing to do with the battery. He said that the cord for the 120V EVSE wasn't designed for the 240V upgrade and gets too "hot". He also said that there are problems with battery capacity in some Texas cars and implied that the EVSE upgrade is being looked at as a cause and that there is a TSB coming out on the use of it.

He also said there are a couple of other EVSEs due to be UL listed in January to give the AV one some competition and that the models currently available from Home Depot and places like that aren't currently UL listed. (Is that true? I never looked into it.)

Has anyone been hassled by a Leaf certified dealer about using EVSE Upgrade for 240V charging?

This is likely FUD. There is no technical basis for this assertion, and there definitely is nothing that the EVSE can do to affect battery life. The 12amp (rev1) upgrade actually runs much cooler on 240v than the original unit does on 120v. As several people have pointed out voltage has no bearing on this, only amperage. While it's true we increase the amperage 4 amps on the Rev2 upgrade, there is no appreciable loss. There are several orders of magnitude more loss in the LEAF's on-board charger module, which also explains why it must be liquid cooled and have a pump running continuously to cool it.

Keep in mind if voltage was the issue, then what happens in Europe with all the Panasonic EVSE's configured FROM THE FACTORY to use 240v?

If in some twilight-zone alternate-reality the EVSE upgrade did cause extra voltage drop (it doesn't in our reality), the LEAF would only charge SLOWER and it would be LESS stress on the batteries! The LEAF's on-board charger is designed for global operation, which means as low as 100vac in Japan, and up to 264vac in Europe. (240 + 10% tolerance) Japan Level II is 200vac, so even if we loose 40 volts in the cable, it would still be the same as charging in Japan.

The Panasonic EVSE generates a fair amount of heat while it's relays are closed, even with no charging taking place, as these relays have fast coils which generate appreciable heat when on. Doesn't matter whether it's connected to 120v or 240v.

We have actually improved the efficiency of the unit with our upgrade by installing a more advanced power supply with less parasitic draw. Our upgraded unit is one of the most efficient units I've evaluated.

Keep in mind "Nissan Reps" are NOT engineers! Many don't know an inverter from a turn signal flasher.

I know for a fact that Nissan people and even several actual Nissan engineers are using our product.

-Phil

 

[Ingineer]

Oh, and if Nissan EVER tries to invalidate your warranty or anything else because you used one of our products, I will be happy to testify in court on your behalf. I'd love the chance to set a precedent about this FUD!

-Phil

 

[ElectricVehicle]

Keep in mind "Nissan Reps" are NOT engineers! Many don't know an inverter from a turn signal flasher.

-Phil

Using the turn signal at high speeds for a sharp turn can invert the vehicle!!! :lol: :shock: :lol:

 

[DarkStar]

You realize these guys are just temp employees hired for the weekend at a particular location, right? You'll see the Nissan Craigslist ads pop up about 2 weeks before they show up...

You must have never done the tour because at ours, there were many actual Nissan reps , not just hired workers.

I've been to the one here in Portland. The majority were "temps" with just a handful of "employees." You could tell by how easy it was to get them off-script. The temp I was with when I did the test drive even admitted he wasn't sure about electric vehicles when he answered the Craigslist ad, but sure had a lot of fun throughout the weekend.

 

[TomT]

I did six tours; two in Santa Monica, two in Century City and two in Anaheim. In all cases, all but one there was a temp, and many were completely misinformed...

You realize these guys are just temp employees hired for the weekend at a particular location, right? You'll see the Nissan Craigslist ads pop up about 2 weeks before they show up...

You must have never done the tour because at ours, there were many actual Nissan reps , not just hired workers.

I've been to the one here in Portland. The majority were "temps" with just a handful of "employees." You could tell by how easy it was to get them off-script. The temp I was with when I did the test drive even admitted he wasn't sure about electric vehicles when he answered the Craigslist ad, but sure had a lot of fun throughout the weekend.

 

[TEG]

I did a tour in LA then another in San Jose, and recognized some of the same people.
I asked some how long they had been involved and was told that they joined the tour "a few stops back" and both were planning to drop out before it finished. So I see it like a train where new temp workers sometimes get on and others get off. It isn't just local people with 0 knowledge. Some of the staff were better than others, and some had a bit more experience.

With that said, one host who seemed fairly knowledgeable said one great feature about the leaf is that the map software is constantly updating over a cell connection and so you never have to buy map updates. Well it does get points updated like new public EVSEs, but (as far as I know) that base map software never gets updated wirelessly. (People have been saying that the street maps are already a bit stale.) Does anyone know if/when Nissan will offer an update to get newer maps installed? Could it come on a flash card? Is there a hard disk inside the "head unit" that stores the maps?

(Sorry, we seem to have gone off topic here.)

 

[dgpcolorado]

I've been traveling and my previous post was a bit abbreviated. The Nissan rep I was speaking with wasn't a temp. He was involved in bringing the dealers in my state up to speed to become "Leaf Certified". [This turned out to be a very big deal for me because I learned from him that the Nissan dealer in Durango is going to be Leaf certified and Durango should be Leaf distance from where I live, despite three mountain passes. He said it is also possible that the dealer in Grand Junction will decide to become Leaf certified, in part because Nissan is coming out with a plug-in hybrid version of the Altima (IIRC) and an Infiniti car, so charge stations and electric service will be needed for them. For me, this means that I won't have to tow my Leaf to Denver for service, as I had been expecting.]

However, I was so astonished at his assertions regarding EVSE Upgrade being considered as a possible cause for battery problems in the Texas cars that I didn't call him on the BS. I did express my skepticism that the EVSE used had anything to do with the charger or battery problems. He claimed that the cord for the Panasonic EVSE wasn't designed for the current in the upgraded version and that it gets very hot. In retrospect I wish I had pointed out that if he knew anything about electricity he would realize that how it reaches the charger is irrelevant, so long as the handshake is performed ok and the charger functions. But I was taken by surprise and don't handle such things well; a resilient debater I am not.

What Phil says above about Europe using 240V, and the likelihood that a similar Panasonic unit would be supplied with the cars, did occur to me shortly afterward. I thought about going back to point out how ridiculous his assertions were, but decided not to. My impression was that he had been given orders from on-high to discourage use of the Upgraded EVSEs, for whatever reason (I can think of several).

FWIW.