Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2!

[Volusiano]

If you are ordering the Volt upgrade please note that it introduces a problem for the LEAF if using a charger timer, so we do not recommend LEAF owners order the Volt upgrade.

I'm one of those who already had the Volt upgrade done (before knowing about the problem, of course), so can you tell us what problem it causes on the Leaf if using a charger timer? I haven't been using the Rev2 EVSE as a primary charging device, so I wouldn't know what kind of issue I may run into if I do.

But if for some reason, I need to use it as my primary charging device, with the Leaf charger timer, can the upgrade be undone if the unit is sent back to you?

 

[tbr00]

We are finally getting close to being caught up with the flood of orders we received after our closure. All received orders should be complete soon, thanks for your patience!

Thanks!

-Phil

Good to hear you are catching up. We sent ours in on Thursday (7/14) before you re-instated the Advanced Replacement option, so by now we are having severe withdrawal symptoms from not being able to charge up. Eagerly awaiting the tracking information for the return shipment.

 

[fooljoe]

So if I get a Quick220 (or make my own as discussed in this thread), and one or both of my 2 120v sources is on a 15 amp breaker, and I have the rev2 upgrade for 16 amp charging, does that mean I will pop the breaker when I try to charge? Similarly, what would happen if I plugged my rev2 EVSE into an l6-15 outlet? I just found one of these at work, but I'm too scared to try it, and I need an adapter first anyway.

If my suspicions are correct, does this mean I'd need to get my 2nd EVSE upgraded without rev2 to use these sources? Or is there any way to limit the consumption of a rev2 EVSE to use 15 amp (or less, if there is such a thing) sources?

 

[GeekEV]

I don't believe anybody here has actually tried a rev 2 unit on a 15a circuit with quick220. The 16a max of the EVSE is so close it might well work without tripping the breaker - it depends on how finicky the breaker is. Making maters more complicated, it's not uncommon to see household plugs on a 20a circuit, even though the plug itself is technically rated for 15a. If you're the only high load devices on such circuits you'd be fine. As for your L6-15 at work, same thing probably applies there too, although dedicated outlets usually are breakered at or below the plugs rating. There's really only one way to find out. The worst that should happen is you pop the breaker. If it's a dedicated outlet, no big deal. If it isn't, you may piss some people off... :shock:

 

[fooljoe]

Yeah, I figure no big deal for the Quick220 scenario (which would likely be at a friend's house or something anyway), but I definitely don't want to risk tripping the breaker at work, and I imagine it's much more likely that the receptacle matches the breaker than it would be in a residential setting.

 

[mwalsh]

I don't believe anybody here has actually tried a rev 2 unit on a 15a circuit with quick220. The 16a max of the EVSE is so close it might well work without tripping the breaker - it depends on how finicky the breaker is. Making maters more complicated, it's not uncommon to see household plugs on a 20a circuit, even though the plug itself is technically rated for 15a. If you're the only high load devices on such circuits you'd be fine.

pi100 did, for about an hour. He said it was OK so long as the EVSE was the only thing drawing on the circuit:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4774&start=33

As for 20A circuits in a household....good prospects where the plugs aren't too awfully difficult to get at include the washer and dryer circuit or the one for the microwave.

I've got a couple of 20A circuits that the electrician labeled CONV in my house. Does anyone know what CONV means, without me going and switching the breakers off to see what doesn't work anymore?

 

[Volusiano]

Most outlets in my kitchen area are on 20A circuits. I guess for food processing and toaster ovens and water boiler and blender, etc. high current draw devices. The rest for lighting in bedrooms are on 15A circuits. So your best bet to tap a Quick220/Rev2 EVSE combo to is in the kitchen, as long as they don't have GFCI breakers on them.

 

[mwalsh]

So your best bet to tap a Quick220/Rev2 EVSE combo to is in the kitchen, as long as they don't have GFCI breakers on them.

The problem though is that kitchens built in the last 15 years or so will have GFCI.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Most outlets in my kitchen area are on 20A circuits. I guess for food processing and toaster ovens and water boiler and blender, etc. high current draw devices. The rest for lighting in bedrooms are on 15A circuits. So your best bet to tap a Quick220/Rev2 EVSE combo to is in the kitchen, as long as they don't have GFCI breakers on them.

Kitchen outlets or any other outlets that might come in contact with water (kitchen, bath, garage, laundry rooms, etc) are required to be GCFI in this state and i doubt that requirement varies much from state to state

 

[Volusiano]

Most outlets in my kitchen area are on 20A circuits. I guess for food processing and toaster ovens and water boiler and blender, etc. high current draw devices. The rest for lighting in bedrooms are on 15A circuits. So your best bet to tap a Quick220/Rev2 EVSE combo to is in the kitchen, as long as they don't have GFCI breakers on them.

Kitchen outlets or any other outlets that might come in contact with water (kitchen, bath, garage, laundry rooms, etc) are required to be GCFI in this state and i doubt that requirement varies much from state to state

Half of my kitchen outlets around the sink island and refrigerator area are GFCI protected, but the other half against the back splash of my counter are not.

 

[Bassman]

The garage door opener outlet works and it's usually 20 amp and nonGFCI. I use it with an extension cord and then either a washer outlet if in the garage or an outlet in the house next to the garage/house entrance door. But my EVSE is rev1 so I only draw 12 amps with the Quick220.

 

[Ingineer]

My experience has shown that pulling 16A from 15A circuits works every time I do it. I've never had a 15A breaker trip with a 16A load even after over an hour of charging. In several cases I've pulled 16A from 100 year old Victorian era houses with 15A fuses! Of course I was carefully watching everything. Somewhere I've got a thermal image of the fusebox, definitely got pretty toasty in the fuse, but it never blew.

YMMV of course.

-Phil

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Most outlets in my kitchen area are on 20A circuits. I guess for food processing and toaster ovens and water boiler and blender, etc. high current draw devices. The rest for lighting in bedrooms are on 15A circuits. So your best bet to tap a Quick220/Rev2 EVSE combo to is in the kitchen, as long as they don't have GFCI breakers on them.

Kitchen outlets or any other outlets that might come in contact with water (kitchen, bath, garage, laundry rooms, etc) are required to be GCFI in this state and i doubt that requirement varies much from state to state

Half of my kitchen outlets around the sink island and refrigerator area are GFCI protected, but the other half against the back splash of my counter are not.

only need GCFI socket on the circuit. the other plugs are simply connected to the one breaker you can see in Kitchen

 

[TEG]

FYI, there are some of us with old Ford RangerEVs with adapter cables that can connect the J1772-1996 (Avcon) to J1772-2009. So I can unplug my 3.3kW Leaf from the home Blink and plug the Ranger in through the adapter and pull 6.6kW just fine. (The Blink is connected to a 40amp breaker.) I have no idea what would happen if I tried to charge the Ford RangerEV through one of your modified adapters. I don't know about the flexibility of the charger built into the Ranger. For all I know, if it doesn't get a 6.6kW capable pilot signal it might refuse to charge.

So far I haven't encountered any J1772-1996 or J1772-2009 that aren't 6.6kW so I never tried it at lower rates.

If you ever build something that is 6.6kW capable and need someone to test it, let me know.

I guess I could try the 20A version of the Leaf adapter too if you wanted to see what happens.

A Tesla Roadster would be a more flexible test through, since you can pick the charge rate from the touchscreen in the vehicle.
(The Ford RangerEV doesn't offer any charge rate selection, so it is a mystery to me if it will work at less than ~30A. )


Oh, also I have a couple of old SCI EVSEs with Avcon/J1772-1996 output, and NEMA14-50 input.
They are on the large size to be considered portable.

If the Ranger is J1772 compliant with old Avcon standard, as it should be, it will charge at the lower rate. The standard originally was developed with a simple PWM system so current adjustment can be done with a simple analog circuit, so I'd be surprised if it didn't work properly.

-Phil

Well, I tried charging the old NiMH ranger from the Leaf EVSE at 120V...and... blew up the charger in the ranger... :x
Now it just makes a loud buzzing noise and doesn't charge even on the old 240V Avcons...
I think that was about a $1600 mistake plus labor to replace the charger if I can even find one anymore.

 

[LEAFer]

Well, I tried charging the old NiMH ranger from the Leaf EVSE at 120V...and... blew up the charger in the ranger... :x
Now it just makes a loud buzzing noise and doesn't charge even on the old 240V Avcons...
I think that was about a $1600 mistake plus labor to replace the charger if I can even find one anymore.

My condolences :!:

 

[TEG]

Someone on one of the Ranger mailing lists said that at a minimum the cooling fan in the RangerEV charger was a 220V unit, so my attempt to charge at 120V may not have been cooling the charger properly.
In hindsight I should have stuck to my instincts when I recalled that I had never heard of anyone trying to charge one on 120V.

 

[GeekEV]

Maybe you tripped a thermal shutoff? Have you tried letting it cool for a few hours and try the Avcon again? If that doesn't do it, perhaps there's a thermal fuse that blew and can be replaced? I would hope the charger was designed to protect itself against thermal overload rather than just fail.

I'm not an electrical engineer, I just play one on TV. :lol:

 

[Volusiano]

Kitchen outlets or any other outlets that might come in contact with water (kitchen, bath, garage, laundry rooms, etc) are required to be GCFI in this state and i doubt that requirement varies much from state to state

Half of my kitchen outlets around the sink island and refrigerator area are GFCI protected, but the other half against the back splash of my counter are not.

only need GCFI socket on the circuit. the other plugs are simply connected to the one breaker you can see in Kitchen

You're just guessing about my kitchen, but I know my kitchen better than you, and I know for a fact that half of my outlets in my kitchen is not GFCI because I have the GFCI tester plug that came with my Quick220 and I use it to test them all out. The one GFCI outlet I have in the kitchen daisy chains out to half of the outlets in my kitchen, but the other half of the outlets don't come from this GFCI outlet nor any other GFCI outlet because they don't trip when I tested them with my GFCI tester plug. This GFCI tester plug basically will trip a GFCI outlet when you push in the button on the plug. It didn't trip those half of my outlets in the kitchen.

Not all outlets in the kitchen are considered near water. Yes, outlets around the sink are GFCI and outlets around the refrigerator (with the water line) are GFCI. But outlets on the other half of my kitchen are nowhere near any water source so I guess they don't need to be GFCI.

 

[wwhitney]

Not all outlets in the kitchen are considered near water. Yes, outlets around the sink are GFCI and outlets around the refrigerator (with the water line) are GFCI. But outlets on the other half of my kitchen are nowhere near any water source so I guess they don't need to be GFCI.

The current requirements for GFCI receptacles can be found in NEC 210.8. For a residential kitchen, the only requirement is that receptacles serving the countertop be GFCI protected. Other receptacles in the kitchen are not required to be GFCI protected, e.g. behind the refrigerator, inside a cabinet, or on a wall without a countertop.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Volusiano]

Not all outlets in the kitchen are considered near water. Yes, outlets around the sink are GFCI and outlets around the refrigerator (with the water line) are GFCI. But outlets on the other half of my kitchen are nowhere near any water source so I guess they don't need to be GFCI.

The current requirements for GFCI receptacles can be found in NEC 210.8. For a residential kitchen, the only requirement is that receptacles serving the countertop be GFCI protected. Other receptacles in the kitchen are not required to be GFCI protected, e.g. behind the refrigerator, inside a cabinet, or on a wall without a countertop.

Cheers, Wayne

Thanks for the clarification, Wayne. My kitchen layout has countertops against a wall, with the stove in the middle, and the refrigerator to the right of the stove. I have an island where the sink is located. The outlet to the right of the stove and left of the refrigerator (in between them) is a GFCI outlet (with the test and reset buttons) and it's daisy chained to other outlets to the right of the refrigerator and outlets around the island with the sink, and all these sub-outlets have a blue GFCI label on them.

But I have 3 outlets on the left of the stove, serving that side of the countertop, which are not GFCI, and are not part of the other circuit mentioned above.

According to your statement, these 3 outlets are not up to code then because they're not GFCI? If so, how did they pass the electrical inspection? My house was built by a big home builder in 1996.