SAE Planning vote to formally deny CHAdeMO in US

[EVDrive]

retracted

 

[TonyWilliams]

The beauty is while the gas burners sit in the car and wait we mostly sleep while we wait. And the discount is closer to $2 or $3.

Well, I get to sleep IN MY BED at home. My first read had me thinking of sleeping in my car!!

 

[TonyWilliams]

BTW how do you know the cost is $25? What loacation is that QC?

Hey, don't confuse Danny... He doesn't need facts!!!!

News flash: there are exactly the same number of ChadeMo chargers that charge $25 as there are public Frankenplug chargers. (to my knowledge, so far only 350green charges anything, and that's $7).

Dan, do you need help with the math on that one?

 

[bryan38401]

smkettner I agree 100%

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

um, is there a moderator in the house? DAN AND NAN needs to be put on ICE, perhaps indefinitely, IMHO.

 

[DaveEV]

ALL:

1. This thread has drifted horribly off-topic. Try to keep it to CHAdeMO vs J1772-DC. There are other threads for discussing the benefits/drawbacks of QC.
2. Keep it civil. Way too much name-calling from all parties.

 

[hill]

Who would line up for gasoline at $1 discount if the pump operated 1/3 the speed?

Who would line up if they could only put 70-100 miles worth of fuel in their car and that refueling took sooo long that it made your actual rate of travel 40MPH on a road trip? And, who would pay $25/stop for the 70-100 miles and 40MPH rate of travel? Answer: no mainstream consumers and few early adopter Leaf owners.

You're right of course. I shoulda bought a Volt for driving those 150 mile trips. Oh wait ... the PiP's mpg passes the Volt at mile 70 ... AND ... it costs less. Here's a crazy idea ... I keep the Leaf as a commuter and buy a PiP as alternate long range transportation. AND ... if I have 20 minutes to spare at a Chademo, (which is down in price to $9k ... tho you LOVE to throw out $50k) on those very few 150 mile trips ... and most folks have 20 minutes ... then I'll just do that.

 

[DANandNAN]

ALL:

1. This thread has drifted horribly off-topic. Try to keep it to CHAdeMO vs J1772-DC. There are other threads for discussing the benefits/drawbacks of QC.
2. Keep it civil. Way too much name-calling from all parties.

The name calling is ridiculous. I'm surprised it hasn't been removed. I agree that the thread is somewhat off topic, although the OP did opine as to why the SAE would do this.

In answer to those questions poised to me posted beforehand:
smkettner, I'm glad we agree that it's a city car. If the business is there, businesses will invest in the stations. The $25 comes from my running the numbers, Tony's numbers, and from a few businesses I've spoken to on the phone. Here's a great thread where Tony said CHAdeMO stations weren't profitable http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8854&start=30#p197437" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tony, please keep it civil. The SAE Combo is spec'd to be faster. But, neither is fast enough.
Hill, I didn't suggest buying the Volt. The charger could be free and the business could still have trouble http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8854&start=40#p197458" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Then there's all the other costs.

Anyway.

 

[GRA]

Gentlemen, I think it's time for everyone to step back and take a deep breath. This thread is increasingly devolving to ad hominem attacks, and that's a violation of the terms of service of almost any reputable forum, as well as adding nothing to the debate. Feel free to make fun of other's ideas or arguments all you want, in the most witty/ironic/sarcastic way you please, but let's stop the name calling.

Thanks.

 

[SanDust]

How many Volts would sell in the USA if 3/4 were shipped overseas? A year from now with plenty of supply your comparison will be far more valid.

Fair enough point, but if there is great demand for the Leaf and not enough Leafs to meet that demand why did Nissan cut the monthly lease payments?

 

[SanDust]

Gentlemen, I think it's time for everyone to step back and take a deep breath.

+1

 

[hill]

How many Volts would sell in the USA if 3/4 were shipped overseas? A year from now with plenty of supply your comparison will be far more valid.

Fair enough point, but if there is great demand for the Leaf and not enough Leafs to meet that demand why did Nissan cut the monthly lease payments?

don't dealers get to set their own price? Don't dealer allotments turn on how much product they move?
.

 

[SanDust]

don't dealers get to set their own price? Don't dealer allotments turn on how much product they move?

I don't know how the allotment works and yes dealers can set their own prices. But I'm referring to the advertised national leases. Nissan has dropped the monthly payments on those. Hasn't the deal dropped from $349/month to $289/month? My point is that if in fact there was a problem keeping up with demand I wouldn't expect Nissan to be working to make the leasing deals more attractive. Something of a disconnect between what Nissan is saying and what it is doing. If you can't satisfy existing demand because of supply constraints why cut prices to stimulate demand?

 

[EVDrive]

um, is there a moderator in the house? DAN AND NAN needs to be put on ICE, perhaps indefinitely, IMHO.

@ DAN AND NAN,

Clearly you are trying to irritate everyone who drives a leaf on this thread. You have not made any friends here. Please contribute in a positive way or go away. Enough noise and nonsense.

@ Moderators,

Is there a policy against constant off topic, negative derailing posts?
Please make one or enforce it if it is already there. We can all appreciate a different opinion but constant nonsense and deliberately false statements is sickening.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tony, please keep it civil. The SAE Combo is spec'd to be faster. But, neither is fast enough.

Let me know when you've completed your calculations on how much faster your Frankenplug will charge

PPS: Didn't want you to forget which post I was referring to --->>>>

I've never said the SAE Combo was going to cut charge times in half, but as it's currently spec'd it could be faster.

Civil is when you provide a statement / hunch / theory, and then debate said issue. You don't do that. Here's a perfect example; Frankenplug is faster.

Please provide that data you think supports that. When you're done, I'll counter with the facts, and then we're pretty much done.

In my past of being a moderator for a different website, I would have closed this thread, deleted every post you made in it, edit out all quotes from other posts, and put a 30 hold on your account and IP address. Your flame bait is not unique to Internet forums, but we're lucky to not have much of that here. You are the exception.

 

[walterbays]

Civil is when you provide a statement / hunch / theory, and then debate said issue. You don't do that.

It seems his goal is to make enough noise so that people wanting to avoid the drivel won't read the thread at all, thus preventing any meaningful discussion of QC systems pros and cons. By trying to engage him in real debate all you accomplish is to amplify his noise and make his rants visible even to those who have put him on their ignore lists, as I have not - yet. [Edit: I'm not singling you out for criticism of feeding the trolls Tony. Many have done it. I've done it. I'm only suggesting that we might stop.]

By contast, scottf200 often disagrees with me but always addresses the subject of discussion and usually brings some relevant and interesting new information.

 

[Herm]

I believe we have an ignore user option somewhere in the forum.. click on the name of the person you never want to read again.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

that, IMHO, is not enough for someone who is single handedly attempting to fill the search engines with anti CHAdeMO propaganda or whatever Dan thinks he is doing. It seems clear that Danandnan has zero intent of contributing anything constructive here, if that is not means for expulsion, I don't know what is. The TOS doesn't need to be entirely objective, sometimes subjective decisive action is required. I've seen people like this ruin forums like this. Some people just don't play well in the sand box!

I believe we have an ignore user option somewhere in the forum.. click on the name of the person you never want to read again.

 

[Pipcecil]

Back on the relevant discussion,

Has specific specs on the SAE Combo come out for comparison to CHAdeMO (for volts, amps, and charging speeds; theoretical vs. realistic)? Also, just for comparison sake, does anyone know the specs for Tesla's fast charge system (its AC right? or is a DC charger?) and the European one (Meneskes...I know I spelled it wrong).

For all your engineering types to help us non engineering folks, a nice table/chart would be cool to compare the numbers. I would love to see how the Tesla spec compares to CHAdeMO and the like. Disregarding alliances/support/ergonomics, I think the internal spec numbers will be the most important play. Ergonics, design and support can come later if a superior spec'd charger is made (although economics doesn't always work like that).

 

[hbleaf]

IMHO and I haven't read the complete thread, but having just spent the last year working on L3 chargers and with Chademo I support the efforts of SAE to bring a more open and comprehensive charging standard to the US and possibly the world. A similar move to this is moving ahead in Europe. Chademo was an attempt by the Japanese car companies to develop proprietary chargers so that they could generate high margin products to support their vehicles. The fiasco created by Chademo by slowly releasing 0.9 of Chademo to the developer community followed by a vehicle the Leaf which used 1.0 version of Chademo and not releasing this to developers greatly slowed the progress on this front and kept lower price L3 chargers from the market. Just try buying the L3 chargers from Nissan, they announce product but don't deliver so that their high priced brethren can reap the rewards of overpriced chargers.

SAE has played no such games and allowed developers and car companies to co-develop what is a far superior specification for fast charging.

Goodbye Chademo like Betamax your time has come and gone. We won't miss you, but your selfish ways have determined your fate!