salyavin
Well-known member
I agree but I'd still rather they buy a Tesla than a Hummer. I am a bit of a pro EV person so having an EV as a fashion accessory or status item is just fine.
WetEV said:It is personal because I don't like to see misinformation win. Happens too often.
Valdemar said:WetEV said:I'm not sold on the requirement for a TMS.
Says someone who lives in PNW. Move to LA or Phoenix and your opinion might change.
The Hummer has been electrified.salyavin said:I agree but I'd still rather they buy a Tesla than a Hummer. I am a bit of a pro EV person so having an EV as a fashion accessory or status item is just fine.
FUD vs FUD.coleafrado said:WetEV said:It is personal because I don't like to see misinformation win. Happens too often.
Posting a photo of a random fire on the side of a road with no context or explanation is basically the epitome of fear, uncertainty and doubt.
Multiple Tesla's have also caught fire while parked, while charging, while gently driving with no collision involved. I don't expect Musk to confirm a coolant leak issue. Do you?coleafrado said:Vast majority of EV fires are Tesla vehicles, even though the population size difference is only ~50%. So you can pick and choose which weights you'd assign to which design parameters - and the list is endless.
Just trying to confirm that you think the only reason EVs catch on fire is that they're liquid cooled. Have you seen any Bolt fires? Any Volt fires? Any Spark EV or Zoe fires? Any Smart Electric Drive fires? And so forth.
coleafrado said:You're hyperfocusing on one variable - "is there liquid circulating in the pack?" - and ignoring everything else. Yeah, you might find a positive correlation on a graph plotting "number of battery fires" against "number of TMS per car." This is not a statistically sound approach.
coleafrado said:What you seem not to understand, fundamentally, is that Nissan's reasoning was never about safety or cost of the TMS hardware. It was that way back in 2007, Nissan couldn't afford to fit more than 24 kWh of batteries in their prototype packs. They considered it pointless to add cooling to a car so obviously limited to city driving, especially when they had no understanding of battery degradation. Their executives didn't want to spend the R&D money redesigning the pack to have cooling, so they stuck with the same shitty design for literally a decade and destroyed the LEAF brand.
Yes, I bought an etron. And battery cooling wasn't a large part of the decision to buy.coleafrado said:Again, it's an irrational point to waste one's breath on because no modern automaker is going to introduce a new car without a TMS. You should know - you bought an etron. I literally cannot comprehend why you would argue about this.
Valdemar said:WetEV said:I'm not sold on the requirement for a TMS.
Says someone who lives in PNW. Move to LA or Phoenix and your opinion might change.
27C is the lowest I've heard of any TMS cooling to, which might cause a problem with condensation in hot and humid places outside the USA.cwerdna said:Re: "30 or 35 C", for reference, this is the observed behavior of Bolt's thermal management: https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/battery-conditioning.33279/#post-512173. When plugged in, apparently, the car cools the battery to 27 C (80.6 F).
coleafrado said:I would argue that the lack of Leaf fires after crashes is attributable to the massive crush zone (40-50 cm) between the side of the car and the first actual battery cell. Teslas, by comparison, have almost no gap (10-15 cm) because Tesla makes weird design choices. Many side collisions in Teslas damage the battery, but very, very few Leafs sustain any damage to the pack in crashes.
Yes, I know people have burned to death inside Teslas. That is ultimately a defect in the battery and door design; it's part of the reason Tesla added emergency latches to the 3 and Y doors and fire retardants to their batteries.
What you seem not to understand, fundamentally, is that Nissan's reasoning was never about safety or cost of the TMS hardware. It was that way back in 2007, Nissan couldn't afford to fit more than 24 kWh of batteries in their prototype packs. They considered it pointless to add cooling to a car so obviously limited to city driving, especially when they had no understanding of battery degradation. Their executives didn't want to spend the R&D money redesigning the pack to have cooling, so they stuck with the same shitty design for literally a decade and destroyed the LEAF brand. You're looking at a rotten apple and saying it's better than a fresh apple because it's easier to turn into compost. Great, but a pound of apples is more valuable than a pound of compost.
Again, it's an irrational point to waste one's breath on because no modern automaker is going to introduce a new car without a TMS. You should know - you bought an etron. I literally cannot comprehend why you would argue about this.
DaveinOlyWA said:Valdemar said:WetEV said:I'm not sold on the requirement for a TMS.
Says someone who lives in PNW. Move to LA or Phoenix and your opinion might change.
You just confirmed his statement. TMS should be an option. Its funny to me that some here think its just a few hundred to add TMS. The price probably had dropped since the early EVs but I went thru the Focus EV class and also took the engineering class (optional) and the complexity of their TMS was significant. The monitoring equipment alone was more than "a few hundred"
Valdemar said:DaveinOlyWA said:Valdemar said:Says someone who lives in PNW. Move to LA or Phoenix and your opinion might change.
You just confirmed his statement. TMS should be an option. Its funny to me that some here think its just a few hundred to add TMS. The price probably had dropped since the early EVs but I went thru the Focus EV class and also took the engineering class (optional) and the complexity of their TMS was significant. The monitoring equipment alone was more than "a few hundred"
I suppose so, but EVs first need to grow beyond their niche status before that level of options can be offered.
OrientExpress said:The current LEAF still has some time left, but it will eventually be replaced by a car that is built on the new Renault/Nissan platform that is the basis for the Ariya.
DougWantsALeaf said:Do we think 2021 will be the last year for the Leaf? They just introduced the car this year to another dozen markets. I would like to see them re-price the car to be in the 20-30K range, so it could like along side the Ariya for a while.
DaveinOlyWA said:DougWantsALeaf said:Do we think 2021 will be the last year for the Leaf? They just introduced the car this year to another dozen markets. I would like to see them re-price the car to be in the 20-30K range, so it could like along side the Ariya for a while.
Nissan has stated they will have over a half dozen full EVs out by 2022 besides the Ariya so probably end of LEAF as we know it replaced by something very likely similar but following the skateboard platform.
Another question;
is it "Ari Ya" or "Ah Rye a"
webeleafowners said:DaveinOlyWA said:DougWantsALeaf said:Do we think 2021 will be the last year for the Leaf? They just introduced the car this year to another dozen markets. I would like to see them re-price the car to be in the 20-30K range, so it could like along side the Ariya for a while.
Nissan has stated they will have over a half dozen full EVs out by 2022 besides the Ariya so probably end of LEAF as we know it replaced by something very likely similar but following the skateboard platform.
Another question;
is it "Ari Ya" or "Ah Rye a"
Yes.
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