Official Tesla Model 3 thread

[SageBrush]

At .10/kWh Tesla is selling the power close to cost.

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Learn about demand charges

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

At .10/kWh Tesla is selling the power close to cost. The station maintenance is a loss.

I believe in next 1-2 years they will sell the network for cash infusion. Maybe keep a couple stations to honor the free supercharging.

Guessing they are not paying normal residential rates so rates are probably a bit lower but Tesla is playing the long game. Eventually they will add solar, batteries, etc. so the revenue from the COO will slowly shift to Tesla's sister companies.

 

[SageBrush]

Guessing they are not paying normal residential rates so rates are probably a bit lower

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Same advice to you: learn about demand rates

 

[mtndrew1]

InsideEVs estimates Model 3 sales in the US for July 2019 at 13,450, a reduction 800 units (5.6%) compared to July 2018 deliveries of 14250 cars.

Last June/July was a little weird because Tesla held back deliveries in June to not cross the 200,000 unit threshold until July for tax credit reasons.

I’d wager that Model 3 sales in the US will remain flat or decline slightly in each remaining month of 2019 (YoY) but the strong first half of 2019 as compared to 1H 2018 will still result in a moderate increase in total 2019 Model 3 US deliveries versus 2018.

 

[lorenfb]

I’d wager that Model 3 sales in the US will remain flat or decline slightly in each remaining month of 2019 (YoY) but the strong first half of 2019 as compared to 1H 2018 will still result in a moderate increase in total 2019 Model 3 US deliveries versus 2018.

Very interesting, and wasn't that view noted up-thread?

 

[Randy]

At .10/kWh Tesla is selling the power close to cost.

-
Learn about demand charges

At least in our Service Territory, customers that have a high throughput on their commercial accounts make out well on rates with demand charges because the actual energy price is discounted quite a bit (1/3 to 1/2 the price per kWh of a rate that doesn't have demand charges).

So as long as you can move lots of kWh through the meter, you'll be better off on a rate with demand charges.

It's the meters/customers/charging stations that don't get much use per day that have the problem of having the demand charges dominate the bill...

So to me, the secret to success is high throughput...

 

[Oils4AsphaultOnly]

I’d wager that Model 3 sales in the US will remain flat or decline slightly in each remaining month of 2019 (YoY) but the strong first half of 2019 as compared to 1H 2018 will still result in a moderate increase in total 2019 Model 3 US deliveries versus 2018.

Very interesting, and wasn't that view noted up-thread?

You ignored the second part, "moderate increase in total 2019 model 3 US deliveries versus 2018". Even so, the quarter's still young. Q3 should still result in higher deliveries than Q2 despite the tax credit drop.

There's still too much FUD about Tesla out in the wild holding back sales. People I interact with are hesitant to buy a Tesla, because they believe all the baloney about the company going bankrupt. At least they've decided to wait for another company to produce EV's rather than buy another ICE vehicle.

 

[GRA]

IEVS:

Finnish Goods Inspection Finds Tesla Model 3 Paint Is Soft And Thin

https://insideevs.com/news/363399/tesla-model-3-paint-fragile/

Which leads to peeling and chipping marks after just one month of use.

We thought Tesla Model 3 paint problems were long gone, especially after Tiaan Krige, owner of AP3 Paint Protection Services and a specialist in paint protection, said the problems were probably just a production hiccup. Perhaps, but this hiccup was shipped to Europe and has just been delivered to new owners that are very displeased to notice them. Such as Joni Savolainen.

He received his Tesla Model 3 on March 29 and one month later, on April 29, he started to notice that its paint was wearing off. When he complained about the problems at Tesla’s store, he was just informed that they were not covered by the warranty.

Savolainen was obviously not happy to hear that and asked the Finnish Chamber of Commerce for a goods inspection. According to its website, it consists of “technical audits on goods and services”. And the result was not good for Tesla.

The report states there is incomplete paint around “the front and rear hinges, from the underside of the doors, the A and B pillars”, that the fitting of doors and hatches is “inadequate”, contributing to damage to the paint on door openings. . . .

Thickness tests showed that the paint was not even. In some places, it averaged 106 microns, well below the industry’s average of 110 to 150 microns. But it gets worse. Some areas had just around 70 microns of paint.

The report even claims that in the most affected areas the paint was "well below the lower tolerance range given by the manufacturer".

When it comes to hardness, through a test called Wolff-Wilborn pencil scratch test, with a hardness compared to that of pencils, Savolainen’s Model 3 presented an “F”. The standard is normally 2H or even 3H, which is even harder. . . .

If this was due to rushing things up to deliver Model 3 units in the beginning, Tesla should probably start to address the matter in a better way than saying damages are not covered by warranty. And a friendly one.

Savolainen stresses he is not alone, with around 15 other owners complaining about the same issues. They will probably sue the company for a new car or at least to get a decent paint job. Savolainen has already checked how much it would cost and he was given a € 5,300 quotation. . . .

 

[GRA]

IEVS:

Insider Gives Some Battery Charging Tips For The Tesla Model 3

https://insideevs.com/news/363430/tesla-model-3-battery-tips/

But which are trustworthy and which are not?

It is always better to check the total capacity of the Tesla Model 3 battery pack in percentage than in miles. You should always park it overnight with a 90% charge, at least. These are some of the tips the EVlectric YouTube channel claims to have obtained from a person that helped design the Model 3 battery packs. And these are not spoilers, just the beginning of this story.

It began when the presenter got worried for charging his Model 3 to 100 percent and getting 296 mi of range instead of the normal 310 mi he used to have. This led him to talk to a bunch of people and the insider we mentioned before.

But this is where things get interesting. The EVlectric channel pinned one comment that says at least one of the tips is mumbo jumbo. Here is what Rocco Speranza states:

2:50, 100% false, it is not based on your driving habits, it is based on a fixed efficiency of 242 wh/mi and battery size for the long range model.

Go here if you really want to know how to protect your battery. The 90% note is strictly to keep the BMS calibrated, it DOES wear the battery more doing this.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/battery-degradation-scientifically-explained.153074/

And the mentioned tread brings a very interesting video not only on the Model 3 battery pack, but on all lithium-ion battery packs. . . .

 

[EVDRIVER]

Can you please stop posting links to every silly story, this is a discussion thread not a news blog aggregation site.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Those with a Tesla, quick question?

Does Tesla keep reserve range below the gauge? Ex, when range says 1% or are you really at something higher to prevent stranding?

I often thought no that while Nissan has fewer roadside assistance calls, having a full 5 KW left when hitting 1% leads to people under representing the available range.

 

[palmermd]

Can you please stop posting links to every silly story, this is a discussion thread not a news blog aggregation site.

I agree. it makes it hard to follow actual discussions when the threads get clogged with just links to news. This thread is not as bad as some I've seen, but it is a nice reminder, and helps keep the thread a discussion about the Model 3 and any news worth discussing.

 

[webeleafowners]

Those with a Tesla, quick question?

Does Tesla keep reserve range below the gauge? Ex, when range says 1% or are you really at something higher to prevent stranding?

I often thought no that while Nissan has fewer roadside assistance calls, having a full 5 KW left when hitting 1% leads to people under representing the available range.

Is that the case for a leaf? Is there’s full useable 5 percent left? That’s like 30 km. Really?

 

[SageBrush]

Those with a Tesla, quick question?

Does Tesla keep reserve range below the gauge? Ex, when range says 1% or are you really at something higher to prevent stranding?

I often thought no that while Nissan has fewer roadside assistance calls, having a full 5 KW left when hitting 1% leads to people under representing the available range.

Is that the case for a leaf? Is there’s full useable 5 percent left? That’s like 30 km. Really?

.
Not for the LEAF, and not in a Tesla.
There is a battery reserve to prevent bricking but it is not user accessible.

Bjorn Nyland has reported occasions that his Tesla models still had a mile or more driving despite the screen saying 0%; but other times the car died above 0% so the anecdotes are a case of inaccurate instrumentation. You most certainly cannot rely on there being usable energy below 0% or even close to 0%.

 

[webeleafowners]

Those with a Tesla, quick question?

Does Tesla keep reserve range below the gauge? Ex, when range says 1% or are you really at something higher to prevent stranding?

I often thought no that while Nissan has fewer roadside assistance calls, having a full 5 KW left when hitting 1% leads to people under representing the available range.

Is that the case for a leaf? Is there’s full useable 5 percent left? That’s like 30 km. Really?

.
Not for the LEAF, and not in a Tesla.

There is a battery reserve to prevent bricking but it is not user accessible.

Thanks.

 

[SageBrush]

Is that the case for a leaf? Is there’s full useable 5 percent left? That’s like 30 km. Really?

.
Not for the LEAF, and not in a Tesla.

There is a battery reserve to prevent bricking but it is not user accessible.

Thanks.

.
I forgot to mention --
The rumors of extra energy in a LEAF mostly come from a misunderstanding of LEAFspy. It reports total battery capacity while the car display of 0-100% is scaled to usable energy.

 

[webeleafowners]

.
Not for the LEAF, and not in a Tesla.

There is a battery reserve to prevent bricking but it is not user accessible.

Thanks.

.
I forgot to mention --
The rumors of extra energy in a LEAF mostly come from a misunderstanding of LEAFspy. It reports total battery capacity while the car display of 0-100% is scaled to usable energy.

Ok. So at 1 percent you are pretty much done. Funny thing. I’ve bet been below like 10 percent ish. Maybe 7?

 

[SageBrush]

Thanks.

.
I forgot to mention --
The rumors of extra energy in a LEAF mostly come from a misunderstanding of LEAFspy. It reports total battery capacity while the car display of 0-100% is scaled to usable energy.

Ok. So at 1 percent you are pretty much done. Funny thing. I’ve bet been below like 10 percent ish. Maybe 7?

.
Pretty much, or higher if stomp on the go pedal.

I've gotten down to 12-15% once or twice in the LEAF, and down to 6% in our Tesla.

 

[Oils4AsphaultOnly]

.
I forgot to mention --
The rumors of extra energy in a LEAF mostly come from a misunderstanding of LEAFspy. It reports total battery capacity while the car display of 0-100% is scaled to usable energy.

Ok. So at 1 percent you are pretty much done. Funny thing. I’ve bet been below like 10 percent ish. Maybe 7?

.
Pretty much, or higher if stomp on the go pedal.

I've gotten down to 12-15% once or twice in the LEAF, and down to 6% in our Tesla.

I've gone as far down as less than 2%, but have never gotten down to 1% before. For the entire 100 mile leg of the trip, the NAV kept reminding me to keep the speed below 75mph to ensure my ability to reach home. The estimated arrival percentage went from 15% (ignored the warnings and continued to drive around 80+ mph on the I-5), down to 5% estimated (right at the top of the grapevine when I started to keep under 75mph), until it showed 2% expected at destination, when I slowed down to 60mph (which didn't really help that much!). The battery gauge was showing 2% charge remaining for the last 4 miles of my drive. All of this, because I didn't want to wait the extra 5 minutes to get an additional 7% of charge (I left the supercharger with less than 50% charge, so it was still charging at more than 100KW). Never gonna be that dumb ever again.

So you REALLY have to work at it to get close to 0% charge remaining, but don't count on having any usable capacity left at anywhere near that either.

 

[cwerdna]

Those with a Tesla, quick question?

Does Tesla keep reserve range below the gauge? Ex, when range says 1% or are you really at something higher to prevent stranding?

I often thought no that while Nissan has fewer roadside assistance calls, having a full 5 KW left when hitting 1% leads to people under representing the available range.

You mean kWh?

To add to what Sage said about Bjorn, there have been cases where Tesla drivers (I believe not with 3's) have run out with >0 showing on their "GOM". Example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLKNu-mfkIc - with his X

I've seen some other reports on TMC, but I'm not clear how widespread this is and if the instrumentation is simply too far off some/most/little of the time or under certain conditions (e.g. high loads, temps, out of balance pack, worn pack , etc.) I don't think many Tesla drivers like to push it that far that often esp. when most don't have instrumentation like Leaf Spy to see what's going on. And, there's often no reason to: they have such huge capacity + an excellent SC network + all the public L2 infrastructure they can use.

I watched this video long ago (he has an S): https://insideevs.com/news/339193/3-ways-to-ruin-your-tesla-battery-plus-what-it-costs-to-replace-it/. His car shut down with 34 miles showing on the "GOM".

Here are few more (non-3's):
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/battery-runs-out-with-16-indicated-range-remaining.137057/ - if you read further down on page 1, Tesla ended up replacing his pack - S
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-s-shut-down-at-32-miles-leaving-me-stranded-why.159594/ - S
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-s-shut-down-at-32-miles-leaving-me-stranded-why.159594/page-4#post-3854378 - with an X

Back to Leaf, before Leaf had a % SoC display (got added on model year '13), Edmunds did this test of an '11 Leaf until dead: https://www.edmunds.com/nissan/leaf/2011/long-term-road-test/2011-nissan-leaf-driving-it-to-the-bitter-end.html. Not sure if Doug's seen this. When their GOM turned to --- miles (I'm fairly sure that's VLBW aka 2nd warning), that was at 122.0 miles in. Their car finally came to a halt at 132.0 miles traveled.

But yes, instrumentation coupled with tolerance or lack of can lead to people over (e.g. adding distance traveled + GOM value that could be artificially high) or under report (e.g calling it quits way too early) range. That's part of why I wrote https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=275421#p275421 to figure out when people were calling it quits when they were complaining about "short" range.