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Been a busy day for me - I called AV and asked to be put on the "cash and carry" list and the I called Nissan and had them enable the EVSE waiver just in case I don't do anything for the time being. Like I told Darren at Nissan, I have plenty of time between needing the car to charge at 110v (16 hours), but now the 240v wiring is in it will give me all kinds of options.
 
My AV EVSE was installed on Nov 23. There are a few new facts in the user manual worth mentioning here in addition a few comments about how the installation went.

The installation was about a 70 foot run of Romex from my panel to the garage via the attic. Two holes were made (and patched) in the stucco wall, one just below the panel and one at attic level) to allow them to fish the Romex through. I had mounted plywood between two studs for the EVSE and they neatly ran the Romex behind it and into a cutoff switch and from there to the EVSE. They said the cutoff switch is mandatory in Palo Alto, but not required in Sunnyvale, but they do it anyway just to be sure the city doesn't complain. We have a 100 Amp service and Sunnyvale made them do a load calculation to make sure we didn't have to upgrade the panel. For this, they asked us for the square footage of the house and the number of amps taken by our oven, dish washer and garbage disposal. (We do not have air conditioning.) Apparently we were 7 amps below the limit.

Two people worked for 5 hours on the installation and the AV labor custom charge was $1560. Using fairly high labor rates of $100/hr for the electrician and $50/hr for his assistant adds up to $750. The breaker, romex and cutoff switch probably cost less than $100. So as everyone already knows, the labor rates from AV are very high. I chose to go this route to be sure it was done in time for the tax credit and for use when my LEAF arrives and to minimize my worry.

Now for some tidbits from the user guide.

They call the EVSE a "charging dock." Not a bad name.

There is a "trouble light" which indicates if there is a ground fault and some other types of problems.

The charging dock will not charge an EV that requires an external ventilation system. If it is connected to this type of EV, the trouble light will go on. I don't know how it knows an EV needs ventilation. (Resistor value in the EV?) This of course is not a problem for the LEAF.

While there are Start and Stop buttons, one does not need to press the Start button to start charging. It is only needed if you have stopped charging with the Stop button for some reason.

There is a light that goes on to tell you it is properly connected to the vehicle.

There is another light to tell you the vehicle is charging. If you are using the LEAF's timer to delay the start of charging, it is not clear if this light will turn on when you plug it in or if it will wait until charging actually starts. It does say that this light goes off when the car stops charging.

They list two methods to stop charging: pressing the Stop button or pressing the latch release on the connector. They say the first of these is preferred.

If a ground fault is detected, charging stops. Unless this occurred right when connecting the cable, it will automatically restart charging after 15 minutes. It will repeat this up to four times before giving up and leaving the trouble light lit. This is to allow your car to be charged when the ground fault was caused by "line surges or other disturbances."

If there is a power outage, charging will restart when the power comes back on. However it waits a random time from 0-20 seconds. This is to stagger the loads coming back onto the grid.

In the troubleshooting section they describe what to do if the trouble light is on.

If it is on solid, you should try cycling the power with the circuit breaker or disconnect switch. If that doesn't fix it that you have to call for repair (the same 1-877-NO-GAS EV number we use now for customer service).

If it blinks twice a second, the error has to do with the vehicle. Action is same as for a solid light.

If it blinks three times a second a utility problem is the cause. Try cycling the power and that if that doesn't work, call the utility company.

If it blinks four times a second they say it is caused by the charging dock being too near a heat source (furnace, water heater etc.) or in direct sunlight.

If it is blinking rapidly. Try pressing Stop and then Start. If the light comes back on, try cycling the power. If that doesn't work then call customer support.
 
thimel said:
If it blinks four times a second they say it is caused by the charging dock being too near a heat source (furnace, water heater etc.) or in direct sunlight.
Click to expand...
Direct sunlight? Now there is one I hadn't heard or thought of. These things are supposed to be weatherproof and approved for outdoor mounting, aren't they? I don't plan to get one, but I did have the $100 assessment, and the planned location was outside, on the south side of the garage. The car would be protected from the elements by a tent-like carport, but the charging dock would get a lot of sun.

That might also put a crimp in people's plans to leave an e-hose where it could be used by fellow LEAFers passing through.

By the way, blinking four times a second sounds pretty much like blinking rapidly to me. Did it perhaps mean blink four times and then pause for a second?
 
Yes, the EV's "Charging my Batteries Requires Ventilation" is a different value of one Resistor in the EV.

When the EV is connected to the EVSE, this different load on the Control Pilot wire from the EVSE causes the EVSE to "sense" (measure) a different voltage on the loaded-down Control Pilot line ... that "says" ... "ventilation must be provided before charging can begin".

This requirement for an "active" ventilation system applies primarily INDOORS.

If the EVSE is installed OUTDOORS, then the EVSE is usually set to charge without any "extra" ventilation system.
 
Can anyone provide the UL number on their unit? I'm trying to get a permit to have it installed and they're asking for that number.

Thanks,

Kevin
 
I have a feeling people will be using the L1 EVSE next year to do L2 charging. My prediction.
 
raptor6677 said:
Can anyone provide the UL number on their unit? I'm trying to get a permit to have it installed and they're asking for that number.

Thanks,

Kevin
Click to expand...

I am not sure if this would be the correct number. Number mentioned under the UL logo on my unit is 3XZ8. I didn't find any other numbers next to the label.

Harvinder
 
The AV dock is being installed as we speak. Total cost $1,700 for a very simple install in new construction with a pre-wired 50Amp 220V circuit.

Boy is this thing JUNK. I really regret buying it. It has no built in usage meter, no ethernet connectivity, one idiot light for fault information, and (astonishingly) no ability to set the time of use. Yes, I know the Leaf has the ability to set the charging times built into the car, but the charging station is for any electric car we buy in the future - not just for the Leaf.

I know I should have checked this out more carefully but for $1,700 I just ASSUMED this thing would have some basic functionality around usage, communication, and an ability to set the charging times (at least some basic stuff like a kill-a-watt power strip)! The installers said that for the low, low price of another $500 I could get a timer installed (hardy, har, har).

So what exactly are you buying here? A cord (not even retractable), a shut-off relay, a cheap ugly plastic box with a POS cord holder, and a few idiot lights. (Have you looked inside one of these things?) All for the low, low price of a 58" 3D television, plus blue-ray player (or for 8-10% the price of a car, or a high-end washer dryer combo, etc.). Wow what garbage!

I knew we were overpaying for this thing, but I figured it was probably a good unit and with the tax refund it would be worth it. Big mistake. (Oh, and they also gave me bad info on the install that caused me to have to pay for my electrician to come out again for no reason as it turns out...).

Live and learn.
 
SolarExec said:
The AV dock is being installed as we speak. Total cost $1,700 for a very simple install in new construction with a pre-wired 50Amp 220V circuit.

Boy is this thing JUNK. I really regret buying it. It has no built in usage meter, no ethernet connectivity, one idiot light for fault information, and (astonishingly) no ability to set the time of use. Yes, I know the Leaf has the ability to set the charging times built into the car, but the charging station is for any electric car we buy in the future - not just for the Leaf.

I know I should have checked this out more carefully but for $1,700 I just ASSUMED this thing would have some basic functionality around usage, communication, and an ability to set the charging times (at least some basic stuff like a kill-a-watt power strip)! The installers said that for the low, low price of another $500 I could get a timer installed (hardy, har, har).

So what exactly are you buying here? A cord (not even retractable), a shut-off relay, a cheap ugly plastic box with a POS cord holder, and a few idiot lights. (Have you looked inside one of these things?) All for the low, low price of a 58" 3D television, plus blue-ray player (or for 8-10% the price of a car, or a high-end washer dryer combo, etc.). Wow what garbage!

I knew we were overpaying for this thing, but I figured it was probably a good unit and with the tax refund it would be worth it. Big mistake. (Oh, and they also gave me bad info on the install that caused me to have to pay for my electrician to come out again for no reason as it turns out...).

Live and learn.
Click to expand...


I could not agree more, the AV unit is very low quality/high margin. I have installed several EVSE units like the AVCON, Clipper Creek, etc and I have seen inside the AV box and it's really made for profit, I can't imagine these being used commercially, even the cord is a cheap spec and more rigid. The $.50 cord keeper is as silly as it gets. At least you get the tax credit and the warranty and are ready to charge. You could put it on ebay and may get $800 for it since there are none available so with the tax credit you could do ok:) Or even sell it later if you choose.
 
Indeed the cord keeper is a plastic hook (willing to bet it breaks in a year or less!). Ludicrous! BTW it took all of one guy around 90 minutes to install. I certainly do not feel like I got much for the $900 installation fee. They are coming back to "train" us on this (I mean, really? Somehow we all manage to work satellite dishes, computers, etc. without training. I think we can probably handle a single plug with lights that say "power, connected, charging, and trouble".)

Another frustrating thing about the AV box: it sticks off the wall 2-3x further than it needs to. I guess someone's idea of a good looking shape or something. I expect most people would strongly prefer a narrower box so the kids don't run into it with their bikes!

So just to summarize: for $1,700 and up you get:
1) A cheap plastic box that sticks too far off the wall
2) A non-retractable cord hanging onto a cheap plastic cord holder
3) No connectivity to the utility and no timer for TOU charging
4) No meter to estimate your power usage (much less some basic in home zwave or ethernet comms)
5) Five led lights to tell you what is going on

On the other hand, I should acknowledge that the installers and the AV folks were all very nice and very professional.
 
This is exactly why people are complaining about the expense of an EVSE. You have 1) a cord, 2) a GFCI, 3) a relay, 4) a pilot signal/control board, and 5) a pretty box.

My cost for a J1772 cable is about $350, the GFCI would be around $50, the relay would be about $100, and the box would be about $20. The control board shouldn't cost much more than $10, but that could change based on any features a user wanted...

Since that brings my total to around $530, I'm taking a risk and trying to purchase the EV-Charge America EVSE for $650 that should have everything... We'll see! :D
 
DarkStar said:
This is exactly why people are complaining about the expense of an EVSE. You have 1) a cord, 2) a GFCI, 3) a relay, 4) a pilot signal/control board, and 5) a pretty box.

My cost for a J1772 cable is about $350, the GFCI would be around $50, the relay would be about $100, and the box would be about $20. The control board shouldn't cost much more than $10, but that could change based on any features a user wanted...

Since that brings my total to around $530, I'm taking a risk and trying to purchase the EV-Charge America EVSE for $650 that should have everything... We'll see! :D
Click to expand...


That cord does not cost AV anything close to $350. I bet the AV unit cost is under $250 and these will soon retail for that price.
 
Unless you're Blnk, and then you add:
  • WiFi 802.11g (since b doesn't have enough bandwidth. :) )
    LCD backlit touchscreen
    Cellular data module
    Zigbee SEP 1.0
    RFID card reader
    Timer logic
    Shunt or coulomb counter of some sort to meter energy (ANSI 12.20)
    AMI interface (probably IR)
    Memory for history
    CCID automatic testing
    Web server software is likely to allow HTTP access by user.
    18 feet of cord
    NEMA 3R enclosure

Did I miss anything? :)
 
SolarExec said:
Indeed the cord keeper is a plastic hook (willing to bet it breaks in a year or less!). Ludicrous! BTW it took all of one guy around 90 minutes to install. I certainly do not feel like I got much for the $900 installation fee. They are coming back to "train" us on this (I mean, really? Somehow we all manage to work satellite dishes, computers, etc. without training. I think we can probably handle a single plug with lights that say "power, connected, charging, and trouble".)

Another frustrating thing about the AV box: it sticks off the wall 2-3x further than it needs to. I guess someone's idea of a good looking shape or something. I expect most people would strongly prefer a narrower box so the kids don't run into it with their bikes!

So just to summarize: for $1,700 and up you get:
1) A cheap plastic box that sticks too far off the wall
2) A non-retractable cord hanging onto a cheap plastic cord holder
3) No connectivity to the utility and no timer for TOU charging
4) No meter to estimate your power usage (much less some basic in home zwave or ethernet comms)
5) Five led lights to tell you what is going on

On the other hand, I should acknowledge that the installers and the AV folks were all very nice and very professional.
Click to expand...

Hey, I think you are the first Texas person I have seen with a liveEVSE install. Were you able to schedule that through your dashboard? I recieved my EVSE quote in September but my "home charging dock" section hasn't opened yet.
 
GroundLoop said:
Unless you're Blnk, and then you add:
  • WiFi 802.11g (since b doesn't have enough bandwidth. :) )
    LCD backlit touchscreen
    Cellular data module
    Zigbee SEP 1.0
    RFID card reader
    Timer logic
    Shunt or coulomb counter of some sort to meter energy (ANSI 12.20)
    AMI interface (probably IR)
    Memory for history
    CCID automatic testing
    Web server software is likely to allow HTTP access by user.
    18 feet of cord
    NEMA 3R enclosure

Did I miss anything? :)
Click to expand...

Two quick questions -- what's the cost on the Blink? I can't find it yet. And are they UL certified yet?
 

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