Tier 2 pushed back to Summer 2011???

[palmermd]

and the Volt is more expensive than the Leaf......
it's called competition..... DUH. Ford hasn't pumped
as much money into R&D as either GM or Nissan.

don't talk down to me just because you are shallow.

I don't understand you answer. I am suggesting that Nissan is leasing and selling the cars at a discount to try and become the leader in the EV market. GM is doing the same for the Volt to capture the PlugIn hybrid market. I have no idea what Ford is going to do for pricing, but there cannot be two leaders, and Ford has the option to compete and lease these cars at a rate that causes them to build cars at very little profit, or sell/lease them with some profit included. I propose that they will include some profit in their pricing, but as I said, they might not do that and decide to compete for a larger market share.

What does R&D have to do with it, could you elaborate on your answer.

 

[hodad66]

What does R&D have to do with it, could you elaborate on your answer.

The Leaf and the Volt are new designs from scratch whereas the Ford
is an existing design with borrowed technology adapted to it. Me thinks
that there is a vast difference in investment. :shock:

http://www.plugincars.com/ford-focus-electric

http://www.plugincars.com/ford-focus-electric/review

 

[garygid]

Perhaps Ford is a real business that needs to make money to stay in business ... whereas the "losing money on every car" does not seem to be a problem for some other large, well-connected US auto makers?

 

[hodad66]

Perhaps Ford is a real business that needs to make money to stay in business ... whereas the "losing money on every car" does not seem to be a problem for some other large, well-connected US auto makers?

Good point Gary.... that's how they weathered the last storm.
Actually it was because their finance department stayed with
supporting their product whereas GMAC dove into the mortgage
frenzy with all the other gluttons......

 

[evnow]

My $350 comment was speculation.... if Volt can lease for $350
then why not Ford?

I'm assuming Ford is not as reckless as GM when it comes to finances. From gm-volt.com postings - looks like the money factor needs to be negative to get the $349 lease price !

BTW, GM has not annouced the lease details even though cars are being delivered this week.

 

[baltobernie]

Initially, you believed what Nissan was telling you. Now Nissan is backing off and you're understandably upset. BUT: consider that Nissan at least is producing their cars and delivering them (albeit slowly) to customers.

It does make a difference to those of us that use their car for business. By announcing this with only a few weeks remaining in the calendar year, Nissan is forcing me to consider purchasing a gasoline vehicle today for a CY2010 deduction, or gamble that sometime in 2011 I will take delivery of a car that has been pushed back twice already. I can't run my business by providing inaccurate leadtimes to my customers, and I don't appreciate being treated that way, either. Nissan should have begun converting deposits into orders much earlier, in order to separate the tire-kickers from the prospects. I could have lived with an 8-month leadtime (routine in many industries), but this "wait and see" is detrimental to their reputation. IMO, early Leaf customers are not the type to respond well to, "WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO GET YOU INTO THIS NEW LEAF TOOO-DAYYY!!!"

 

[evnow]

By announcing this with only a few weeks remaining in the calendar year, Nissan is forcing me to consider purchasing a gasoline vehicle today for a CY2010 deduction, or gamble that sometime in 2011 I will take delivery of a car that has been pushed back twice already.

Hmmm ... just because you might have been able to order in December has no bearing on CY2010 deductions.

 

[xRB]

My guess is that Ford will have a lower cost basis, in that Ford is putting an electric drivetrain into what is an otherwise existing car line. Thereby it will be easier for Ford to have a profitable line. The downside is that the car will not have been designed as electric from scratch, so the end result likely will be not as good. Then, if / as / when Magna can deliver the drivetrain in quantity, Ford can make the car in as high a volume as it can sell.

That is, I'm expecting Ford to bring forth a product that is slightly compromised as compared to Leaf and others, especially as related to battery location, but with a volume and cost that is highly competitive.

I guess we'll know in about a year, well before we see any Leafs in the East, even though the Ford likely will get off to a slow start also.

 

[LakeLeaf]

By announcing this with only a few weeks remaining in the calendar year, Nissan is forcing me to consider purchasing a gasoline vehicle today for a CY2010 deduction, or gamble that sometime in 2011 I will take delivery of a car that has been pushed back twice already.

With a serious delay being introduced into the pipeline, it would be nice if Nissan also gave us the option of putting our order "on hold" or some other mechanism of delaying delivery without canceling and going to the back of the line.

With a 6 month or more delay, you might decide you want to spend your Leaf cash on something else right now, and won't have replacement funds built back up for some time. Or you might want to invest in a 6 month or 9 month CD and not take a penalty for early withdraw if it turns out the delay is only 3 months. At the least, it would be nice not to have the car buying anxiety continue on ad infinitum. It's like the old Chinese water torture

 

[LakeLeaf]

The first markets selected for Ford Focus Electric: Atlanta, Austin and Houston, Texas; Boston, Chicago, Denver, Detroit, Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, New York, Orlando, Fla., Phoenix and Tucson, Ariz.; Portland, Ore.; Raleigh Durham, N.C.; Richmond, Va., Seattle, and Washington, D.C.

 

[TRONZ]

:roll:

 

[garygid]

Buying "anxiety"?
Isn't that a myth, just like range anxiety?

Or, maybe, actually, sometimes ... both are quite real!

 

[Grant]

Just a followup on my situation. I'm the one in VA that did not receive the email. I think it was an email forwarding problem (from one account to another). Anyway, I had to call Nissan to confirm the situation and they said I should have received the same 12/10 email about not being able to order until late summer 2011. I asked why this is being delayed 8 months after I had to wait 8 months to order and they said something about not enough home assessment technicians in the area being trained. I tried to state the point about a 220V charger not being necessary to charge the car but didn't get much traction with that argument.

This is very annoying since I, like others that have posted here, was planning on getting rid of my aging gas-powered car in the spring after getting a Leaf. Now I'll have to wait another 8+ months and likely have expensive repairs in that time.

The one possible upside is that the cold weather package might be available by the time we order. I asked the rep on the phone about this and they just said "no release date has been set for the cold weather package." So that wasn't a very satisfying phone call.

 

[hodad66]

so now it's no AV training.......... funny I didn't need the AV
EVSE. Next BS line?

 

[mitch672]

The first markets selected for Ford Focus Electric: Atlanta, Austin and Houston, Texas; Boston, Chicago, Denver, Detroit, Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, New York, Orlando, Fla., Phoenix and Tucson, Ariz.; Portland, Ore.; Raleigh Durham, N.C.; Richmond, Va., Seattle, and Washington, D.C.

Yes, I saw that "Boston" was included... If I don't convert my 2010 Prius to a PHEV with the PICC conversion, by the time the Focus EV is availble, its a possibility, but I am not a fan of Ford, but I will try and keep an open mind... Found On Road Dead.

 

[srmccollom]

No personal property tax on EV's in Virginia?????????

http://www.nissanusa.com/ev/media/pdf/incentives/nissan-leaf-incentive-52.pdf

No tax if your county or independent city chooses to reduce it by 100%. Arlington County has reduced the tax for all vehicles that qualify for the Clean Special Fuel license plates since 2006. Which means a 19-mpg Lexus LS Hybrid gets a tax break... :roll:

The formula Arlington uses has changed from year to year; in 2010 the tax on a regular vehicle assessed at $30,000 is $1,035.50 and the tax on a CSF vehicle of the same value is $670.00 (plus the $33 decal fee).


Steve

 

[xRB]

With a 6 month or more delay, you might decide you want to spend your Leaf cash on something else right now, and won't have replacement funds built back up for some time. Or you might want to invest in a 6 month or 9 month CD and not take a penalty for early withdraw if it turns out the delay is only 3 months. At the least, it would be nice not to have the car buying anxiety continue on ad infinitum. It's like the old Chinese water torture

.
After the initial shock, we all should return to our normal upbeat outlook.

Nissan has given me $40K that I wasn't expecting to have. That is, my uncommitted cash reserves have increased by $40K just as much as if someone had put the money in my pocket.

In a couple of years, IF there are east-coast Leafs --- real ones, not promises --- and IF I want to consider Leaf again then, I can do so. It is too far off to be able to say for sure. But Nissan has cancelled the present transaction. I am sorry about that, because I wanted to go ahead, but that's life.

Even so, having an extra $40K unexpectedly is not such a bad outcome. Lots of fun things that can be done with that, autos and otherwise.

 

[TimeHorse]

Even so, having an extra $40K unexpectedly is not such a bad outcome. Lots of fun things that can be done with that, autos and otherwise.

Well, I still say let Nissan keep the $99 for now and see what happens; but as for the $40k, I'm thinking Photovoltaic!

 

[hodad66]

Once the 7.5K fed deal is used up by left coasters THEN
the east coast will get a chance. My problem is that without
the 7.5 reduction there is no way that I will be purchasing
a vehicle at that price point.

 

[kmp647]

our chevy store got a volt yesterday, nice car $43,600

typical price on these, it had leather pkg and rear camera package

i didnt get to drive it, be to nervous to get hit in it.

red with black leather. I still want a leaf after seeing it though.

gonna be a long wait, figure soonest is if it goes slightly better than Nissan is saying

order a Leaf june/ july , get car november- january?

as long as it has cold package I am ok with waiting

go to Japan website to see cold pkg info , shows pics and detail on 5kw PTC (pack temp control)

seat heaters front, seat heaters REAR seat , Heat ducts and heated steering wheel.